[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'i')f you have the right background skills.

[davep]

My daughter isn't great at maths or science. However, she is fluent in three languages and plays the violin to a high level. She's probably going to end up doing some arty degree. However, these are the prices in Switzerland http://www.ecal.ch/l_ecal_taxes.php?lang=en. If she doesn't get a job she can always help on the doomstead, and we won't be up to our ears in debt

[PrestonSturges]

I was talking to someone finishing up their business degree and I was asking them if they could do some practical spreadsheet stuff like setting up a one-way or two-way data table to calculate mortgages, do some simple IF ELSE functions, use SUMPRODUCT, name ranges, and use conditional formatting. And they don't know how, so I'm going to steer them towards some intermediate level used textbooks they can buy for less than $20.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'S')o what you're saying, is only geniuses need apply for skilled jobs, regardless of your educational background.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'S')o what you're saying, is only geniuses need apply for skilled jobs, regardless of your educational background.

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'V')M... I swear, if you could add any less to a thoughtful conversation, it'd create a vacuum so powerful that the world would be sucked into it and cease to exist.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'I') believe you're misunderstanding what a creative writing degree is useful for. It can be applied to just about any other discipline out there where good communication skills are necessary.

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', ' ')The remaining holders of "creative writing" degrees aren't even close.

[AgentR11]

I don't see why it shouldn't be teachable, but to have any useful depth, the writer will need either seasoning or genius. Genius is just fate, but you can seek out experience. The only problem being time, of which a 23yr old has spent far too little, but fortunately also has a surplus in need of investing.

[PrestonSturges]

For all people who think they can write, I wonder how many of them ever did much actual reading.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'F')or all people who think they can write, I wonder how many of them ever did much actual reading.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote(' ', 'S')chools are probably part of the problem here, offering degrees in ridiculous things, just to collect a warm seat fee (sort of like airlines) and to keep their revenue up.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')No, I don't think I'm misunderstanding.

I'm pretty sure I know what the guy was EXPECTING to do with the degree in question. Even what he may have been explicitly told it was good for. But in the real job market where any job has to make more money than it costs, there's probably about 1 mediocre writing gig for ever 50 degree toters. That's the expectation from the bubble carrying forward, and it doesn't match reality, and probably won't again in our lifetimes. Bubblenomics says hire anyone that will show, expand balance sheets and focus on revenue and velocity, profit be d*****. Reality now says profit and cash are vastly more important than revenue and size of one's balance sheet.

[Fishman]

Agent, you keep throwing logic at those where logic is irrelevant. Their world is all asunder, they demand the prior world, but it is not to be. I do believe their cries will become much louder before they learn the leasons of reality.

[evilgenius]

This is an interesting thread for me, a recent college graduate. I am still doing the job I was doing while in school. Mind you, that is as an independent contractor, so I work for myself. My goal is to stop working for myself providing the delivery service I currently provide and start working for myself providing web development. The truth is that even though I graduated suma cum laude in Computer Information Systems I didn't learn enough to be the one stop shop I want to be for small business. Sure, I did take on extra courses in things I knew I would need which my program was clueless about, like digital art. Doing that and pouring myself into my studies was not enough. Now, after I have a degree, I am still pouring myself into learning more. It isn't just the students who don't understand what they need to do and aspire toward, but the schools too. The whole world of post-graduate expectation has changed, from the classroom to the cubicle to the dumpster, even if those on the conveyor belt can't see it yet. I think employers know that most graduates have too many holes in their education and therefore demand experience. They have to. Employees these days have got to produce right out of the gate.

Of all the CIS graduates in my class I think one has a job. Everybody else is still looking or has settled for less. The one who did get a job got it because of someone they knew, not because of genius. There are all kinds of jobs on offer, but they all want 3-5 years of experience. I'm not sure if anybody is making their own experience right now (like I am as I learn and do more), but I certainly hope so.

[vision-master]

How about ppl that can create......



The great goddesses, the embodiment of life, ruled the Upper Paleolithic, Neolithic Europe, the Americas, Africa, Australia, and the Middle East. She was An, and then Ianana in ancient Sumer, Ishtar in Babylon, Anu and Isis in Egypt, Anat in Cannan, and Aphrodite in Greece. And each of these female goddess had the spiritual power of life and death and the spiritual power to give life to those who were yet to be born.

The great goddess was the queen of the heavens as well as the Earth, and Neolithic Kings could only claim and retain their kingship by paying homage to, claiming to be the son of, and later, by marrying the goddess. By marrying and possessing the queen of heaven and the Earth, the king could claim dominion over both.

One of the most ancient symbols associated with the great goddess is the kingly throne. The name, Isis, for example, also means "the throne." The kingly throne was originally a symbol of the legs and thighs of the goddess. Thus by mounting her he took possession of the earth, his country, the "mother-land" by seating himself upon her lap.

[PrestonSturges]

Has the bad economy led to an increase in people sleeping with the boss and getting promoted, or have I just become more observant over the years?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')f you don't trust your kids not to decide get a degree in something that you consider to be a ridiculous thing, then only agree to pay for college if they go to an engineering college.

Once they are there your child will only be able to pick between degrees that are useful and employable and that you approve of.

Alternatively, you could just bully them into the major you approve of no matter what college they go to.

[SeaGypsy]

I think your argument is pretty spot on Agent. I would go one step further and say that even genius gets nowhere writing based on a 23 year old middle class American life experience. Every great writer has suffered. The young and great suffered greatly while young and are usually very lucky to be alive, based on their experience. Then there is the opposite, much more common, stultification caused by post traumatic stress. Youth and wisdom are rarely held in the same vessel and it is never, ever a comfortable one.

[SeaGypsy]

My 20 year old son was brought up under the old paradigm, wanted to do all kinds of amazing things, ends up in the Navy. He is pissed with me that I wouldn't make it easy for him to do something else. I told him to get stuffed, the Navy is a perfectly respectable career and the safest one in the military. He has a chip on his shoulder, but in 7 years he can leave with a trade and some life experience under his belt.

My young children now are in for a very different upbringing, much more Asian style, with very serious expectations to be met in stages as they grow. If they don't behave, they will quickly find themselves living in a 3rd world village with their grandmother.