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Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby Loki » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 22:35:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'M')y BCS has a third forward gear (that I dare not use) which only drives the wheels, and not the PTO. It's only function would be to pull a cart to market.

Ah, that's what that high gear is for. I made the mistake of putting the farm's BCS in high gear a couple years ago and literally had to run behind it. Didn't get it stopped until after it broke an irrigation line. Whoops.

The farm's BCS had regular valve problems, and I heard the owners used to have a mower attachment (I think) but it didn't work well so they sold it. It was a beast of a rototiller, though. When I buy a walk-behind I'll probably just go with an older used Troybilt Horse. They're relatively cheap, powerful, and have parts and support available. I've used a couple and liked them, seemed easy to work on. No cool attachments, though, at least that I know of.

Small farm implements like the BCS remind me of Dmitri Orlov's post a couple years back about post-peak technological development focusing on items that will make it easier to exist in a low-energy, poorer world.
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby Loki » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 22:36:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'W')hich isn't to say that that somewhere down the line there won't be lots more poor people using grub hoes but they will be doing it then for the same reason people in the poor world are doing it today, because they are simply too poor to buy food at any price. A $3k tiller or for that matter a $300 tiller isn't going to help them any more then than it helps poor people now.

I don't know, seems like the county poor farm could provide a communal rototiller. Or would that be socialism? :twisted:

I had plots at two different community gardens when I lived in the city. One had a shed full of community tools. The other garden didn't have a community toolshed, but it did have a retired guy with a little tractor who would till your plot for a small fee. I started to dig mine with a shovel, but the soil was too heavy and I was too lazy, so I borrowed a couple of rototillers from friends.

Back in my historian days I did a short research project on a lumber mill that set up what they called a “co-operative garden” for their under-employed employees during the Depression. The mill plowed and fertilized the garden (presumably with a tractor), gave employees a 4,000 square foot plot, and provided seed at cost. The union came up with the motto “Grow a Garden and Win the War Against Depression.”

Just saying not everyone has to own a rototiller. They just have to know someone who does. The John Ikerd paper you linked to stressed cooperation among small producers. I agree. There's a rich guy up near Portland who bought a bunch of land and is currently setting up a communal farm where multiple farmers run their own enterprises but share equipment and facilities. An interesting idea, I hope there are more like it as the Long Emergency progresses.
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby careinke » Fri 06 Apr 2012, 00:09:22

Or you could build your own open source farm equipment.

http://opensourceecology.org.nyud.net/wiki/Main_Page

This digs faster and deeper than a rototiller, plus a free upper body workout. I used mine today to make a new potato garden.

http://meadowcreature.com/broadforks/
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby Loki » Fri 06 Apr 2012, 01:15:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')
This digs faster and deeper than a rototiller, plus a free upper body workout. I used mine today to make a new potato garden.

http://meadowcreature.com/broadforks/


There's no end to the physical labor involved with farming. I've had a marathon of upper body workouts the last two weeks. Spent all day last Friday carrying tables full of vegetable starts in waist-deep water to save them from the flood. Screw upper body, that was a serious full body workout.The last thing I want to do is broadfork a bed. I'm happy to use a big 85hp Kubota for tillage, a lot more fun. :)

This guy looks happy with his rototiller. He's a bit skinny, though, might need a broadfork workout or two...
Image

Found a PDF book called "Tools for Agriculture: A Buyer's Guide for Appropriate Equipment" while purusing my hard drive this evening. Have only flipped through it but it looks interesting, and quite relevant to this discussion.
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby Windmills » Fri 06 Apr 2012, 11:45:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'G')iant mega farms are not a modern phenomenon, they existed even in ancient times. I am not convinced they are going away simply because of fossil fuel depletion. The giant mega farms of the Roman Empire(Latifundia) were also more productive and efficient, yet produced many of the same problems discussed in this thread, such as unemployed, displaced workers.


I don't think one has to go back even that far, although it is helpful to point out just how low-tech one can go and still have agricorps. The confederate south in the US is another example. The wealthy were quite good at taking possession of all the best farmland and marginalizing a large number of poor southerners.
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby Pops » Fri 06 Apr 2012, 13:18:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '
')I don't know, seems like the county poor farm could provide a communal rototiller. Or would that be socialism? :twisted:

:-D

I'm not arguing for or against anything, I thought his thread was about peak oil killing big ag but realize its more about tractors vs. rototillers.

I have a little 30 year old, 40hp compact diesel tractor and a 5hp honda tiller that's probably 25 years old. They both allow me to do grunt work quickly so I can do other more valuable things. The little diesel uses just a speck of fuel to subsoil the garden, then I go over it real quick with the tiller.

I'm about set on buying a PTO tiller this year, if I do 5 or 10 neighbors gardens a year I can pay it off in a few. The benefit would be to be able to quickly condition beds for plastic or paper mulch. I'd lay the mulch and tape by hand of course. I'd like to sell more than I have been but just part-timing it the weeds always win and have me discouraged.
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby TreeFarmer » Sat 07 Apr 2012, 09:55:11

I can tell you where a lot of them went, they crowded each other out.

Every farmer I know is looking to get bigger due to economies of scale. Thus, it is hard for a little guy to even get going thanks to all the land already being controlled or owned by the existing farmers.

Also for those of you who decry the big factory corporate farms, the regular farmers have learned how to deal with them using their own methods. The big guys always try to get the farmers to sign contracts that, if things go wrong, the farmer is stuck. They have wised up to those tactics and are much more lawyer savvy these days.

Another thing about modern farming is that I could farm 100 acres in my spare time after working 50 hours a week at a regular job. Guys like that are also crowding out anyone who wants to farm 'tiny' acreage.

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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby Revi » Sat 07 Apr 2012, 21:24:39

We have a 20 acre tree farm/ maple syrup operation. I think it's the ideal small farm for us. I own the place with a friend who is a forester and we get maple syrup, which we sell some of to pay the taxes and split up the rest for our own use and to give to friends and relatives. We also get wood for heating our houses. It's a good little farm for people like us. We use very little machinery, since we logged it 10 years ago and only cut a little firewood now. The powerwagon and a chainsaw do fine for that.
I think small woodlots could be preserved if they were thought of as small agriculture instead of as house lots that get cut over and developed.
Here's a vid of our sugaring by Newfarmerfilms:
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby davep » Mon 09 Apr 2012, 17:21:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'O')r you could build your own open source farm equipment.

http://opensourceecology.org.nyud.net/wiki/Main_Page

This digs faster and deeper than a rototiller, plus a free upper body workout. I used mine today to make a new potato garden.

http://meadowcreature.com/broadforks/


I used mine today too. If you do it properly you can mostly get away with just using bodyweight.
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby PeakOiler » Mon 09 Apr 2012, 18:30:25

I love my broadfork too.

Where have all the farmers gone? Well that's easy. You pour them out of a gas can. (Energy slaves).
There’s a strange irony related to this subject [oil and gas extraction] that the better you do the job at exploiting this oil and gas, the sooner it is gone.

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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby Revi » Mon 09 Apr 2012, 20:45:21

If you think of a farm as a place to get energy in a bunch of forms it still works. Here in Maine the number of farms is increasing. I just made a small profit for the first time in 10 years off of my small farm. It produces useful things for us. Our particular farm makes maple syrup, shiitake mushrooms and wood. It is also a source of recreation for us. The maple syrup and wood sales pay the taxes.

You have to fight a lot of things to keep going. In our case it's squirrels and creepy people. We are still in the war though. Ilegitemati non carborundum!
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby Loki » Mon 09 Apr 2012, 21:24:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'O')r you could build your own open source farm equipment.

http://opensourceecology.org.nyud.net/wiki/Main_Page

This digs faster and deeper than a rototiller, plus a free upper body workout. I used mine today to make a new potato garden.

http://meadowcreature.com/broadforks/


I used mine today too. If you do it properly you can mostly get away with just using bodyweight.

They have their place, and I'm sure they're great gardening tools, but we're talking about farmers, not gardeners. When I had a small garden I dug it by hand. But try digging 20 acres by hand. Or 100 acres. Can you make a living with a broadfork? Today, not in some theoretical post-peak apocalyptic world?

To me a farmer is someone who makes their living, or most of their living, growing crops or livestock. A professional. It irritates me when farmers are held to a higher standard than say, chemists or engineers, who think nothing of driving 100 miles a day to work, or using all manner of petroleum-based products to do their job, but snipe at farmers for using tractors to do their job.

(not talking about you Davep, I just happened to quote you)
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Re: Where Have All the Farmers Gone?

Unread postby davep » Tue 10 Apr 2012, 03:12:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'O')r you could build your own open source farm equipment.

http://opensourceecology.org.nyud.net/wiki/Main_Page

This digs faster and deeper than a rototiller, plus a free upper body workout. I used mine today to make a new potato garden.

http://meadowcreature.com/broadforks/


I used mine today too. If you do it properly you can mostly get away with just using bodyweight.

They have their place, and I'm sure they're great gardening tools, but we're talking about farmers, not gardeners. When I had a small garden I dug it by hand. But try digging 20 acres by hand. Or 100 acres. Can you make a living with a broadfork? Today, not in some theoretical post-peak apocalyptic world?

To me a farmer is someone who makes their living, or most of their living, growing crops or livestock. A professional. It irritates me when farmers are held to a higher standard than say, chemists or engineers, who think nothing of driving 100 miles a day to work, or using all manner of petroleum-based products to do their job, but snipe at farmers for using tractors to do their job.

(not talking about you Davep, I just happened to quote you)


I tend to use black plastic and the broadfork for my raised beds. The black plastic keeps weeds and erosion at bay when not using the beds (and I can re-use it). I hope to use most of my land for perennial produce and livestock rather than annuals, so in my case I don't think it's a problem. But I agree that if you're growing annuals on a large scale, you'd need quite a lot of manpower even with broadforks (and double digging is for the terminally masochistic, IMO).
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