Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
Post a reply

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 07:52:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '
')... the system has gone snake and tied Americans to a basic state of expected income outside of community, individual effort, or some sort of local collaboration, accommodations, or something in their power to compromise, set right, or prove themselves to be a competent or decent or bad player.

Of all the bright sparks here E, you are the genius.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 08:38:06

A sensible article IMO about MS:

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditi ... -questions
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 16:54:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'M')S progresses rapidly. Or it's supposed to.. I wonder what her treatment is, she looks great to have had MS for 14 years.


I have no idea where you got this from? With over 12 years as a professional carer, most of it in neurological conditions, I have learned more than a little about MS.

MS is founded on a breakdown of the Myelin sheath of the nervous system, both peripheral and central. It is not in a fixed pattern. There are a great many MS sufferers who are dead or approaching death within 2 years of diagnosis. There are also many who are picked up with very early signs, simple clumsiness as a teenager or young adult, has often lead to very early diagnosis.


I'm not being a jerk, I actually wonder whether Ann Romney has MS -- it's possible she was misdiagnosed. I don't know all her business, but 14 years is a long time, if there are no clear MS progression symptoms she may want to re-evaluate that diagnosis.

A family member of mine was mis-diagnosed with MS. One of the top MS neurologists in the area. She had some numbness. MRI or whatever showed some brain scarring. Then came the dramatic MS diagnosis. She was started on one of those $500 a week meds. Her insurance paid for most, but she still had to come up with a lot -- not so easy even for upper middle income people, that's another mortgage right there adding on $1000 a month for one medicine.

Worse than the cost though is that the med makes your feel horrible. Really, really sick everytime you inject. It's been a while now but I recall her being sick for a whole day, like a bad flu, once a week on injection day.

She went through this hell for 3years.. turns out she didn't even have MS. They did checkup MRI's and the thing is those "lesions" never grew. So after a few years a anew neurologist considered the obvious, maybe she didn't have MS because there was zero symptom progression and the meds aren't THAT good.

Long story short they did a trial period off the meds.. she was fine.. lesions never grew and that was 7 years or so ago now. The lesions are probably from a childhood fever or getting hit with a ball as a kid or something, but it's not MS. Which for my relative is very good news, the bad thing is that she took those meds so long. She couldn't sue either since good faith misdiagnoses isn't really malpractice. Knowing what I do now about the disease and the treatment, I think it was clear malpractice -- she was diagnosed far too quickly.

Misdiagnoses rates on MS range form 5 - 10%.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s most patients know, diagnosing Multiple Sclerosis is no easy matter.

There is no test or tests that can definitively determine whether or not a patient is suffering from MS.

Although MRIs can detect lesions in the CNS, they can't determine specifically what those lesions are..

Unfortunately, the misdiagnosis rate for MS approximates 5% to 10%, even by experienced healthcare providers..
http://www.wheelchairkamikaze.com/2011/02/misdiagnosis-of-multiple-sclerosis-and.html


Here's what I wonder. Why have MS rates exploded in my lifetime -- what's caused this. After a few years there's no doubting whether you really have it or not I think, just anecdotally from the people I've known who really did have it. The misdiagnosis is a problem -- Big Pharma wants to sell these $500 a week meds, and the more MS doctors we have then guess what you get more diagnosis of that disease.

I wonder if Ann Romney has any symptom progression at all, any more lesions, any symptoms? 14 years is a long time. Just as with my family member, it could well be that Romney doesn't actually have MS.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 17:11:23, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 17:08:19

Clearly you didn't read the article I stuck up. MS is not a single disease with a single prognosis. It is less than wise to judge anyone's claimed diagnosis or disability based on a few personal experiences.

The question about false diagnosis is an issue. More though is under-diagnosis leading to delayed treatment and or lifestyle supports, allowing the disease to progress much faster and doing much more damage than it otherwise might.

The other question about causes is a curly one and very much still up for debate and research. Why the explosion in numbers is very hard to tell, given that diagnostic techniques are always progressing and referrals likewise. There are issues about funding treatment in socialized countries, with doctors seemingly hesitant to push a suspected case through the system knowing that the cost can be huge. The case may be the opposite in the USA, with doctors chasing insurance payouts for treatments...I don't know much about the system there, just guessing.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 17:45:42

Guys all I know is I can tell when there's something fishy.

Something's fishy about this, at minimum it would be nice if Ann Romney would give some details as a public service, rather than just say "I have MS" on the campaign trail, all totally calculated by political hacks to "humanize" her husband Mitt.

Here's the limited amount of info I could find:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')iagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1998, Romney, now 58, credits mainstream and alternative therapy with keeping her out of a wheelchair and putting the degenerative neurological disease in remission. As she begins to campaign on her own, she is talking more openly about her struggle and what it has taught her.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-07-18-ann-romney_N.htm


Alternative treatments???

For Christ's sake, if there's some alternative herbal treatment cure could she maybe tell folks what that might be????

More to the point of political issues, rather than having sympathy for Mitt Romney I want to know if this personal experience with MS will make him give a damn about working class folk who come down with that disease. If Willard Romney guts medicaid and medicare to give tax cuts to himself and his billionaire friends, then what happens to those with MS not as lucky as Ann Romney, what about the ones who aren't billionaires, the ones in a wheelchair who need that medicaid to pay for a home nurse to help care for them?

Does Willard Romney care? Does Ann Romney care?

EDIT: further down the article..

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen she was diagnosed nine years ago, however, she felt "crushed into dust," too exhausted even to open the mail and fearful that soon she would be unable to walk. A regimen that included both intravenous steroids and such alternative therapies as acupuncture and reflexology has enabled her to resume much of her life.


Wow, so she didn't even take the expensive meds just steroids. "Acupuncture" is certainly no kind of MS cure. But doing some more reading, I didn't know this, but I guess MS can go into remission for years :?: :

http://www.hms.harvard.edu/hmni/On_The_Brain/Volume05/Number4/MSf.html

Maybe I don't know what I'm talkin about. Just everyone I've known with MS it was all downhill, no 14 year remissions. But maybe my own family member is in remission (need to talk to her about that she needs a checkup MRI).

On the MS spectrum, Ann Romney is very very very DARN LUCKY. I don't want to be an insensitive jerk, but the Romneys may want to watch using this as a sympathy thing -- because others with this disease are suffering much worse and they aren't in remission after just some steroids and accupuncture, and more importantly they aren't billionaires and some will need that medicare and medicaid that Romney wants to gut to give tax cuts to to the rich elite.

2nd EDIT: just to clarify again, see I learned something, I realize now Romney could be in remission. Still seems unusual to me.. diagnosed so late in life, now in remission for 14 years after what sounds like minimal treatment? Anyhow I feel bad knocking someone with MS, but I know on the scale here she is very lucky she should be thankful but not use this to get sympathy for Willard -- it's insulting to people really suffering from MS.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 18:29:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
Diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1998, Romney, now 58, credits mainstream and alternative therapy with keeping her out of a wheelchair and putting the degenerative neurological disease in remission.
Alternative treatments???

For Christ's sake, if there's some alternative herbal treatment cure could she maybe tell folks what that might be????


6, that is stock standard treatment for MS. Most people with the disease never talk about it until they must, outside their family.

You may be correct that she is some kind of fake, I wouldn't have a clue, but nor would I dare come out with the kind of accusations you have without any foundation.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 18:47:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'Y')ou may be correct that she is some kind of fake, I wouldn't have a clue, but nor would I dare come out with the kind of accusations you have without any foundation.


I agree with the OP. I don't have sympathy for Ann Romney.

This is a political campaign.. if she wants to talk about MS, she should connect that to policy issues and what needs to be done for those who have MS but haven't been as exceptionally lucky with that disease as she has.

You have to remember SG, Romney is from the party that wants to cut back on services to people who have MS. That's the real point of this thread. I think that was the OP's point -- playing a sympathy MS card when the truth is Republican medicaid cuts would mean no more home health nurse visits. In that context, are we supposed to feel sorry for Ann Romney? First thing that popped in my mind was she looks great, does she even have MS -- just an hoenst question of course she's not faking it, but people get misdiagnosed is this not unusual -- a 14 year remission????

If not, then I've learned something here and I apologize but from what I've seen of MS she's very lucky I don't feel sorry for her.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 18:55:09, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 18:51:59

Romey wants to cut medicare an SS and also said he would balance the federal budget without cutting defense expenditures or raising taxes (on those rich bastards), and touted what he said was his conservative record as governor of Massachusetts.
vision-master
 
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:10:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'R')omey wants to cut medicare an SS and also said he would balance the federal budget without cutting defense expenditures or raising taxes (on those rich bastards), and touted what he said was his conservative record as governor of Massachusetts.


There have already been too many state medicaid cuts. The system can't take federal cuts. What it amounts to is Mitt Romney wants to screw over the sick and disabled to give the rich even more tax cuts beyond the old Bush-Obama cuts that already exploded our national debt.

Nobody seems to care. Yet we should feel sorry for Ann Romney.

Let me tell everyone something, MS is a *DISABLING DISEASE* for most and frickin' acupuncture isn't going to cure it, there comes a point where they can't work, they need medicare and they need medicaid and they need nurses to help them out.

Ann Romney is blessed to be able to look fantastic and go on the campaign trail, but there are others with MS who can't even walk and are in excruciating pain and go blind off and on. These are the people Mitt Romney wants to cut services to, while everyone is supposed to feel sorry for Ann Romney.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:18:20, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:14:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is no funky medical treatment for MS (immuno-suppressant horrorshow side effect drugs if any). It's abstinence from alcohol, refined sugars, anything which acidifies the bloodstream. Ideally alkaline fruits (melons mainly) salads 'til you start talking rabbit and very simple proteins, any meat raw or very close to it, clean whole coldpressed oils. Plus getting it early.


That's nothing but quackery.
vision-master
 
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:22:48

B/S unvision. You have taken one paragraph completely out of context. Besides which you very clearly have no idea what you are talking about, as even the most mainstream doctors in MS are prescribing restricted diets along the lines of what I posted. If you can prove otherwise, go for it, otherwise shut up and learn something.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:27:27

BS SG _ I have an autoimmune disease. I asked my rheumatologist who's also schooled in internal medicine and is in his 70's about 'drinking' he said it don't make any difference. Who should I believe, him or your quackery.
vision-master
 
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:29:37

How old is your immunologist? Probably your age, probably hasn't read a thing in 20 years not published by a pharma company. How much alcohol? More than 2 standard drinks a day is fine? B/S.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:34:22

Google 'butwinick conrad' -> 14,800 results
vision-master
 
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:37:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is no funky medical treatment for MS (immuno-suppressant horrorshow side effect drugs if any). It's abstinence from alcohol, refined sugars, anything which acidifies the bloodstream. Ideally alkaline fruits (melons mainly) salads 'til you start talking rabbit and very simple proteins, any meat raw or very close to it, clean whole coldpressed oils. Plus getting it early.


That's nothing but quackery.


Ya that's all news to me. Although I know they're supposed avoid hot tubs and the sun, for some reason.

Doing some more reading here.. I forgot how complicated MS is. I'm actually worried about my relative now, maybe she's in remission we all just thought the second neurologist was right with the "you never even had it." But looking back she had blurry vision flare ups and would do IV steroids at home to get over that, or she'd take a large number of prednisone pills. Otherwise she took a regular weekly injection of some very expensive drug.

The other people I've known with MS, it was a steady constant decline -- I honestly didn't know there was such a thing as a 14 year remission, but point here is Ann Romney is on the easy side of this disease so the Romneys should just drop the sympathy card -- this is insulting to people in a wheelchair going blind who need the medicaid Romney wants to cut.

Just an incidental story.. friend of mine, it was the steroids that got him, caused heart problems. But he lived with it a good 20 years, used a motorized wheelchair. He was a good guy, incredibly courageous, never complained, never ever sought sympathy, good attitude and enjoyed life. I only heard fear in his voice one time -- he called me when he fell at home and had no way of getting to his wheelchair.

Not directing this to you Vision but to everyone here -- basic services that medicare and medicaid provide is no joke. Disabled people really need these things. Republicans who want to take from the wheelchair bound and the blind for even more tax cuts -- I just don't get that.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:50:43, edited 5 times in total.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:38:17

Healthcare Expense Accounts........ lsol
vision-master
 
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 07 Mar 2012, 19:43:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'H')ow old is your immunologist? Probably your age, probably hasn't read a thing in 20 years not published by a pharma company. How much alcohol? More than 2 standard drinks a day is fine? B/S.


Well, the Italians think so......

Dec. 11, 2006 -- Moderate drinking may lengthen life, but heavy drinking raises the risk of death, Italian researchers say.

They define moderate drinking as two to four drinks a day for men; one to two drinks for women.

"Heavy" drinking is anything beyond that. Light drinking is greater than zero but below the moderate amounts.

The Italian study's definition of moderate drinking is higher than the typical U.S. standard of up to two daily drinks for men and one for women.

http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news ... gthen-life
vision-master
 
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Mar 2012, 08:52:01

I guess The Lancet is full of quackery Vision? Dr Roy L Swank is the name.
This kind of research takes a very long time, his was over 35 years and 144 patients from diagnosis to terminus. No like study has ever been performed. Due to lacking double blind subjects his results (which are close to miraculous) never met the full bar of science. No serious debunking has been done. One feeble attempt over 2 years went nowhere, while a new similar test is being conducted in Orlando. In 35 years we will know if Swank deserved better name. He certainly set a heck of a lot of minds in motion, not just in fringe medicine.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he diet

The diet consists of:

Saturated fat should not exceed 15 grams per day
Unsaturated fat (oils) should be kept to 20-50 grams per day
No red meat for the first year; after that, a maximum of 3 oz. (85 grams) of red meat per week
Dairy products must contain 1% or less butterfat
No processed foods containing saturated fat
A good source of omega-3 (oily fish, cod liver oil, cod liver oil tablets, etc.) along with a multi-vitamin and mineral supplement are recommended daily
Wheat, gluten or dairy product quantities are not restricted. But foods which cause allergies or reactions to an MS sufferer should be avoided
[edit]Research

Swank's research on 144 patients over a 34-year period was published in The Lancet (1990). The study showed that those who followed the diet had not shown any significant deterioration of their condition over a 34-year period, while those that did not follow the diet did significantly deteriorate over the same period.[2][3]

Swank's research has been disputed because it lacked double-blind testing. However, a new study (2011) on relapsing-remitting MS (RRMS) is currently being conducted at the Oregon Health & Science University[4]. Some very limited secondary sources suggest that diet interventions, such as supplements of Omega-6 fatty acids, polyunsaturated fatty acids or vitamins do not have any major effect on the progression of the disease or number of relapses.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swank_diet

With said 'some secondary sources' amounting to a comparatively pathetic 2 year study yielding no result:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... EEA.d02t01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ain results

Trial quality was poor, particularly as regards descriptions of randomisation, blinding and adverse event reporting. Some studies had large numbers of drop-outs; dropouts were never included in the analyses. PUFAs did not have a significant effect on disease progression, measured as worsening of Disability Status Scale. Omega-6 fatty acids (11-23 g/day linoleic acid) had no benefit in 75 relapsing remitting (RR) MS patients (progression at two years: relative risk (RR)=0.78, 95% CI [0.45 to 1.36]) or in 69 chronic progressive (CP) MS patients (RR=1.67, 95% CI [0.75 to 3.72]. Linoleic acid (2.9-3.4 g/day) had no benefit in CPMS (progression at two years: RR=0.78, 95% CI [0.43 to 1.42]). Slight decreases in relapse rate and relapse severity were associated with omega-6 fatty acids in some small studies, however these findings are limited by the limited validity of the endpoints.
Omega-3 fatty acids had no benefit on progression at 12 months in 14 RRMS patients or at 24 months in 292 RRMS patients (RR=0.15, 95% CI [0.01 to 3.11], p= 0.22 at 12 months, and 0.82 95% CI [0.65 to 1.03], p=0.08, at 24 months).
The low frequency of reported adverse events suggests no major toxicity associated with PUFA administration.
No studies on vitamin supplementation and allergen-free diets were analysed as none met the eligibility criteria.


Yet the esteemed debunker team still had this to say about their pathetic acquittal of their grant:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')uthors' conclusions

PUFAs seem to have no major effect on the main clinical outcome in MS (disease progression), and does not substantially affect the risk of clinical relapses over 2 years. However, the data available are insufficient to assess any potential benefit or harm from PUFA supplementation. Evidence bearing on the possible benefits and risks of vitamin supplementation and antioxidant supplements in MS is lacking. More research is required to assess the effectiveness of diets interventions in MS.


and tucks in this spitefull little comment:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Plain language summary
Dietary interventions as complementary therapies for MS

Because available conventional treatments are only partially effective and may produce side effects, most patients with MS use therapies proposed by complementary and alternative medicine - usually diets and dietary supplements. In fact, an Internet search using the terms "multiple sclerosis" and "diet" produces over 6 million references, indicating that these treatments are widely used and believed in by the MS consumer community. The most common dietary interventions are supplementation with polyunsaturated fatty acids, allergen (gluten and milk)-free diets, vitamins, and micronutrients and antioxidants such as selenium, Gingko biloba extracts, coenzyme Q10.
The authors of this review tried to assess whether changes in dietary habits could favourably influence the prognosis of people with MS.
Although a massive amount of data has been published in this area, only 6 studies on polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), studying a total of 699 patients, met the minimal inclusion criteria in terms of methodological quality, for inclusion in this review. No studies on vitamins and antioxidant supplements were found that met our criteria. No papers on any other proposed dietary intervention for MS were found after extensive searching of the scientific databases. ]


Fact is sometimes the science just doesn't exist yet, and is unlikely to any time soon. In this case people suffering a condition as unscientifically known as MS have no choice but to rely to some extent on anecdote.

Last I heard it took more than hearsay to get published in The Lancet?
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 08 Mar 2012, 09:41:08

Those food fad cures are mostly bunk.

Here's the cure..... Cannabis Is The Most Important Vegetable On The Planet
vision-master
 
Top

Re: OPEN MESSAGE TO MRS. ROMNEY

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Mar 2012, 10:00:49

Unfortunately peer reviewed science is not available on the sacred herb as a specific long term MS treatment option/ supplement. It is proven to improve pain tolerance, increase appetite, reduce compulsion and spasticity for a variety of conditions. Besides the seed oil being a probable super food. It's crazy we can't always have the right to utilize what nature has provided in so many ways. My belief is that Swank was onto something, hasn't been debunked and has made a very important contribution to the MS community.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Top
PreviousNext
Post a reply

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests



cron