[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'C')onformists see no other choice than going to college.

[Serial_Worrier]

We need more emphasis on trade schools. This elitist notion that everyone has to go study Aristotle is outdated and ruinous.

[stephankrasner]

I agree that now more than ever trade school makes a lot of sense. Then again, people can still waste their time in a trade school. After school I studied the neon and sign making trade. That trade ended up going bunko. It was graphic design that saved my butt in the end. Without a well rounded set of courses, I would have been screwed.

Republican bashing thread? I don't see anyone bashing republicans, just discussing the merits of the statement. That being said, Santorum is a big government, religious fanatic, slime bag that I am ashamed to say is from my state. He has no place shunning others for trying to better themselves.

[vaseline2008]

Just another tidbit to add to the discussion

A $100,000 factory job. What's uncool about that?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') recent Manufacturing Institute and Deloitte report underscores that. Manufacturers currently have 600,000 vacancies nationwide, it said.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roryrules', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'W')hen I enrolled in College in 1985 I was told that 50% of enrolling freshmen never get to the Bachelor degree level. Judging by all the people I have met since then I would say 50% of those who do get a Bachelors degree wasted 4 years and learned very little outside of where the best party bars in town were. IMO 25% of those who enrolled in college benefited from the experience by actually learning something useful or learning how to figure out problems they encounter in the real world.

[2012 Survivalist]

Obviously college is mandatory for doctors, lawyers etc.

And obviously trade school is the only fit for tradesmen and women.

And very obviously those with a low intelligence have no choice.

But for everyone else, and I figure that's a big percent of the population, it comes down to this:

Do you want to work for yourself, or for someone else?

To work for someone else, you'll do best with a degree. To work for yourself, the sooner you start your journey the more time you have for mistakes and growth - so no college. And you'll want to think outside of the box, something college does not help with.

[SeaGypsy]

The case of the self made entrepreneur, having not worked for others for a good chunk of their life, was always very rare. Fact is to start any kind of business requires capital, either ones own or someone else's who believes in you. People or banks lending money on the basis of liking an idea doesn't happen. They have to like and respect the person first, then the idea. Personally I find going back and forth between wages and business every few years suits me. The steadiness and predictable hours on wages are nice, just as big checks and independence are also. Just having both at the same time is impossible.

[vtsnowedin]

The numbers are familiar but the qualifiers are a bit different. As I recall from 1975 fifty percent of entrants into engineering programs failed to graduate from the program they stared in. that is not to say that they did not end up with a Bachelor's degree just not one with an S attached to it. Graduates with a BS in architecture, civil engineering, mechanical engineering or especially electrical engineering (ie. new something about computers). Those that failed to make the cut ended up as English or history majors and really annoyed those that chose that field to begin with. The colleges cut half without regard to the quality of each class to prove to potential employers that only super qualified people held one of old mossy ed-us degrees. What they would do with a class of geniuses or a class of idiots was never discussed.

[SeaGypsy]

Worst is they then become teachers. The dumbing down effect.

[Loki]

Santorum's comments were disgraceful, but that's to be expected. He is, after all, an idiot.

But I do agree that not everyone should be expected to go to college. College ain't for everyone, nor should it be. Encouraging trades makes sense to me, but that also has its own problems, most notably globalism. Oursourcing and insourcing, US trade and immigration policies are pretty much designed to push American blue collar workers to the margins. Race to the bottom and all that. Rapid technological change doesn't help matters. I don't blame parents for pushing their youngin's towards college.

I was the first in my working-class family to get a bachelors, and the first to get a master's. Employment-wise my degrees have been somewhat useful over the years, but I haven't exactly made money hand over fist. Guess that's what happens when you get an MA in history.

My history degree and the few years I worked as a research historian certainly broadened my understanding of the human predicament, and gave me some perspective on the uncertain future we all face. That and $5 will get me a mocha latte at Starbucks

I've devoted the last few years to learning a trade---horticulture/farming---which I think has been a much better decision than going to grad school all those years ago. Wish I had skipped grad school and gone straight into farming, but hindsight is 20/20.

The main thing I would advise would-be college students to do is this: AVOID STUDENT LOAN DEBT AT ALL COSTS!!! A lot easier said than done in these days of educational hyperinflation, but it's at least still possible at the community college level. I went back and got an associate's in horticulture recently without going a dime in debt thanks to an AmeriCorps educational award, a work-study position, and working full time while I was taking classes. It was exhausting, though, and required living pretty frugally.

[rangerone314]

I learned most of what I know outside of college; I went to college to get some "strange".

[SeaGypsy]

Love it ranger

[Beery1]

I wonder how many of those arguing that people shouldn't go to college benefited from going to college?

Also interesting is the number of people who seem to think college teaches only classic literature, history and fine arts. I studied engineering - a discipline I reckon I've used in just about every job I've ever had, and hardly an elitist or out-of-touch subject. Most college subjects relate to the workplace. Just saying.

No college forces students to take 14th Century French Poetry. But if people are willing to pay for it, colleges will teach it. College is, after all, a business controlled by the rules of supply and demand.

[SeaGypsy]

This thread is time specific. The generic response is irrelevant when we are talking about peak oil and where we are right now. If you want to study anything, go for it, if you can live with the consequences. We might not have a normal lifespan of normal opportunity in front of us.

[Roryrules]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'T')he main thing I would advise would-be college students to do is this: AVOID STUDENT LOAN DEBT AT ALL COSTS!!!

[vision-master]

Imagination, creative drive and psychedelics will surpass college brainwashing.........

[Food of the Gods] Stoned Ape Theory [Terrence McKenna]

[ralfy]

Everyone should go, and not necessarily because of work opportunities or in a formal sense, but we don't have enough oil and resources to make this possible.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'E')veryone should go, and not necessarily because of work opportunities or in a formal sense, but we don't have enough oil and resources to make this possible.

[Cloud9]

The surface answer is that it makes them a better person in the eyes of progressives. The problem lies in ten to fifteen years of student debt that cannot be discharged and no job.

[Roy]

Cloud9 nailed it.

I majored in Industrial Engineering (I know, big mistake ). My total tuition and room in board at a large state university in 1992 was $5k.

I am employed in a white collar IT job. My salary is in the 85th percentile for all workers in the US.

Currently, tuition and room/board at Duke University costs more than I take home in a year. About 25% more.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Cost of a year at Duke to rise to $56,000
Duke University

By: NBC17 Staff | NBC17.com
Published: February 24, 2012
» Comments | Post a Comment

DURHAM, N.C. – The cost of attending Duke University is going up.

On Friday, the Board of Trustees approved a 3.9 percent increase in the total cost of attendance (undergraduate tuition, room and board) for the 2012-13 academic year, according to the school.

Undergraduate tuition will be $42,308, a 4 percent increase, and the total cost for the next academic year, including tuition, room, board and fees, will be $56,056.