[SeaGypsy]

That totally depends on the quality of the land in question, mainly regular rainfall and soil quality. Then what you want to achieve, sustenance for a family with or without which aspects of current lifestyle intact, an economic entity or a fall back position.
1 acre in the right places can produce a lot more than 10 hectares in the wrong location, given the same inputs.

[rangerone314]

I got 2.25 acres, about 1 acre of woods & 1 acre of grassland / permacultured area. It is feasible to generate enough calories to support 6 people, utilizing everything, including marginal shady areas near woods for dwarf dairy goats and chickens to graze (20,000 sqFt) and 2,000 sqFt of cattails and 11,200 sqFt of biointensive beds + permaculture (apples, hazelnuts etc)

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')John Jeavons down Mendocino-way figures a Master Gardener can grow his own food (necessary calories, protein, vitamins, and essential fatty acids) on 1,500 sq. ft. He has documented his own studies and various indigenous/local practices. I figure I can eventuall succeed on double that, 3,000 sq. ft with chickens, orchard (nut/fruit/bush) supplemented with mulch/nitrogen/carbon from extra wooded areas. Of course this all requires recycling of human nutrients. yeecccchhhh! I am not quite ready to gather the family poo. not yet. it's coming.

[careinke]

John Seymour in his book "Self-Sufficient Life and how to live it", has an awesome composting outhouse. With thirty acres, I probably would not need it, but hey, good compost is good compost.

I love the drawings in that book.

[Mesuge]

composting toilets> check the humanure website, it's covered extensively in video and text, the only 'prob' you need steady supply of fine grade saw dust. Otherwise the costs are almost negligible (buckets, dedicated compost and watering).. Although, I'd be a bit concerned about some 'leakage' or unkown vector disease scenario, like not well covered compost during heavy multi day storm with nobody/ill on the property, and/or some critters vectoring despite the well thought and tested precautions (so far).

For sure all the mentioned various examples are great.
In terms of perma, we all know it takes quite some time to setup and settle it down (2decades). And I'm not talking/thinking about the yields more than avg. quality soil patch, since that's gonna be the most contested territory as always. Known good quality soil land area just screams as beacon to .gov cronies/warlords: "here here - I'm ready to be taken over"..
While cultivating some 'mountain patch' gives you very usefull time buffer of being just some weirdo out there, not worthy going after in the early phase of forced land ownership reshuffling, which will come in collapse, lets don't pretend here.

The boom years of 20th century were full of 'land reforms' even in western democracies, be it early as a residue of the feudal remnants to the latter time stage of forced expropriation of small farmers via banks/big agrocorporations, and not even mentioning the mega havoc with land in the eastern bloc. He who thinks that the Olduvai staircase is going to be a calm period on these very matters is a fool.

Moreover, to achieve a perma on marginal lands, well that's the utmost magic (skills). There are methods and 'successfull cases' here to learn about as well, but that's for another thread.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I') got 2.25 acres, about 1 acre of woods & 1 acre of grassland / permacultured area. It is feasible to generate enough calories to support 6 people, utilizing everything, including marginal shady areas near woods for dwarf dairy goats and chickens to graze (20,000 sqFt) and 2,000 sqFt of cattails and 11,200 sqFt of biointensive beds + permaculture (apples, hazelnuts etc)

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'B')iointensive toilets are part of my plan within 4 years.