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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Nuts & Bolts

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

This photo is...

Real
12
No votes
Art
13
No votes
No Idea
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Total votes : 39

Nuts & Bolts

Unread postby Aaron » Mon 23 May 2005, 08:05:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ny sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable
from magic.


Just what is real?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about your senses, what you feel, taste, smell, or see, then all you're talking about are electrical signals interpreted by your brain.


Image
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Unread postby Berkeley » Mon 23 May 2005, 08:40:22

I think it was created using POV-ray. It's a real photo, though.
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Unread postby ArimoDave » Mon 23 May 2005, 17:10:02

My vote is for art. The scene is interesting enough, but for me it is lacking the emotional stimulus required for great art.
At least this is how I distinguish between great art and not great art. But, art in of itself only needs to be man made
(or perhaps made by an animal such as the elephant which paints) and stimulates one or more of the senses
in an interesting way. (An unusual bird song can qualify as art.)

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Unread postby RockHind » Mon 23 May 2005, 20:05:49

I would not recommend using those washers with those nuts and bolts, the hole is to large to have proper bearing
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Unread postby FatherOfTwo » Mon 30 May 2005, 16:24:26

I would have said both, an original photo (of maybe just one of each nut/bolt) that is then photoshopped or otherwise altered.

The shadows look off as well..
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Unread postby Aaron » Mon 30 May 2005, 16:46:50

It's art
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 30 May 2005, 16:55:53

OK...leave it to me to be contentious.

How exactly does a fake picture of a handful of hardware qualify as being art? :razz: By that standard the Lowes down the street from me should be the Louvre.
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Unread postby Aaron » Mon 30 May 2005, 17:02:53

lol

I didn't say it was good art, (although it is).

Or that you would like it.

I meant to prove a point.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Unread postby ArimoDave » Mon 30 May 2005, 17:07:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'l')ol

I didn't say it was good art, (although it is).

Or that you would like it.

I meant to prove a point.


And, your point being?

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Unread postby Wildwell » Mon 30 May 2005, 17:49:31

There was a part of the Maya site like this, guess the real object, guess the CG one...damned hard it was too.
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Unread postby Aaron » Mon 30 May 2005, 19:51:51

It's supposed to demonstrate the blurry line between reality & fantasy as technology progresses.

What is "real"?
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Unread postby ArimoDave » Mon 30 May 2005, 20:04:07

But any photograph, however it is produced, is still art.

If the objects in the picture are images of real things or not is a different matter.
If this is what you were after, then I think your initial question may have been worded better.

Such as:

"Are these real nuts and bolts?"

This is why I was confused when you said you wanted to make a point.

(I don't mean to sound antagonistic -- though it sometimes comes out that way.)

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Unread postby k_semler » Tue 31 May 2005, 02:29:04

Real: Founded upon practical matters, and existing in reality while conforming to all known, (and unknown if any), laws of physics.

Now the question is: What is reality, who's reality is the real one, and how do you know that this reality is the correct one?
Here Lies the United States Of America.

July 04, 1776 - June 23 2005

Epitaph: "The Experiment Is Over."

Rest In Peace.

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Unread postby Aaron » Tue 31 May 2005, 07:56:39

I meant this to apply to peak oil perceptions, like on our google news feed this morning:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') Oil Prices Fall, Despite Supply Fears
Lexington Dispatch, NC - 7 minutes ago
... The oil cartel, which pumps out 40 percent of the global crude, is producing at full-tilt in a bid to cool prices and calm market fears. ...
Oil slips as supply fears rest
Finance24, South Africa - 11 minutes ago
... The oil cartel, which pumps out 40% of the global crude, is producing at full-tilt in a bid to cool prices and calm market fears. ...


?
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Unread postby WhistleWind » Tue 31 May 2005, 10:46:19

I remember a scientific definition of art (or perhaps <I>craft</I>) as
any operation containing 7 or more degrees of freedom. Does
creation of an image resembling nuts and bolts count?

Here is a related question - is the creation of the nuts and bolts
a craft or magic?

Who amongst us knows how, starting from scratch in the
natural environment, to make nuts and bolts to the standard in
the picture? If we were to face apocalypse and get thrown back to
the stone age, could we as a culture start from scratch and rebuild,
or have we already lost the knowledge, and,
more importantly, the skilled craftmanship of the intermediate steps,
to rebuild our computer controlled lathes to build something
as simple as a nut and bolt? Is our technology already in overshoot?

I would say the last generation who could fill the gap was my father's.
He is now in his eighties, but he knows the principles and engineering
theory to start with a crude lump of iron and end up with a
precision tool. (By the way, the first step is to make a machine out
of wood and crude hand tools to plane a metal surface until it is
completely flat to within a few microns).

Mechanical engineering is simply one aspect of our overshoot.
There is no way we could rebuild a computer from scratch today,
because we couldn't design the chips with CAD software, and who
knows now how to build a thermionic valve?
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Unread postby RockHind » Tue 31 May 2005, 13:50:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'I')t's art


Oh, in that case, it also appears that the under head radius on the bolts is non existant and the threaded portion is to long.
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Unread postby ArimoDave » Tue 31 May 2005, 14:46:46

WhistleWind wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ho amongst us knows how, starting from scratch in the
natural environment, to make nuts and bolts to the standard in
the picture?


I for one know how to do this. Although machine tools are nice, and can be built in sequence
from crude wooden lathes, to more and more sophisticated machinery, making such
"real" nuts and bolt -- assuming the energy, and materials are available -- requires
nothing more than patience, a measuring scale, and some files. One can make any
tooling and parts with raw materials and those few tools. These few tools can initially
be rocks. (Ever hear of a grinding stone?)

ArimoDave.

PS I am only in my 40s.
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Unread postby bobcousins » Thu 02 Jun 2005, 13:08:56

Currently, it is still quite easy to spot CGI because the objects are too perfect and clean. Everything looks like it is brand new. Of course, if you are doing an ad shoot you try to make everything look perfect, but there is not a hint of imperfection anywhere in the image.
It's all downhill from here
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Unread postby OilyMon » Sat 04 Jun 2005, 04:38:21

Is it a CG image?
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Unread postby Aaron » Sat 04 Jun 2005, 08:25:52

The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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