[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'T')he fuel used by the tractor both planting and harvesting the corn is just one energy input from a long list of what it takes to get a gallon of corn ethanol to market. It is the sum total of that list that constitutes the EI in the EROEI equation.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')he one thing that seems to be left out of all these conversations over corn based ethanol is what happens to the sour mash after the alcohol is boiled off of it. My grandpa made a good bit of moonshine back in the twenties. He fed his sour mash to his pigs.

[vtsnowedin]

So we have dueling studies and arguments about the relative merits of solid vs. liquid fuel. How do we sort this out? What if we remove all mandates to blend gasoline with ethanol. remove all subsidies and make tax law and policy the same for oil refineries and corn to alcohol plants. Let the industry's bean counters decide how best to fill your tank and then see what shows up at the pump.

[Pops]

Waaay off topic but:
The lower percentage of starch in distillers/brewers grains is a good thing for cattle. Because the carbs that remain are in the form of highly digestable fiber just like forage. This causes better uptake of the nutrients in the forage (grass) they do consume and fewer problems associated with sweet feeds like whole corn that cause the rumen to become acid and kill the bacteria that digest cellulose....

Like I said, waaay OT.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'H')ow do we sort this out? What if we remove all mandates to blend gasoline with ethanol. remove all subsidies and make tax law and policy the same for oil refineries and corn to alcohol plants.

[Cloud9]

The thing I like about ethanol is that it along with woodgas is something I can do. It is small scale and relatively cheap. Will it return me to the happy motoring days of the 1960’s no it will not. It could help me get a crop in and get my beans to market.

[Pops]

The subsidies are a giveaway, at this price level ethanol is very profitable.

The mandates are a different story. It's hard to say we're trying to be less "dependent of foreign oil" when we're exporting several million barrels a day of product.

[Cloud9]

I have nothing against bio diesel. I have friends who are doing that. My pop said the 1st run was about 180 proof. The second run was around 80 and the third run was around 40. The first run would probably work in a gasoline engine, but I have never tried it. Right now, I am scrounging up the parts for the Mother Earth News variant of the wood gas generator. I will build that next summer. What I do have is a pretty good machine shop.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'I') have nothing against bio diesel. I have friends who are doing that. My pop said the 1st run was about 180 proof. The second run was around 80 and the third run was around 40. The first run would probably work in a gasoline engine, but I have never tried it. Right now, I am scrounging up the parts for the Mother Earth News variant of the wood gas generator. I will build that next summer. What I do have is a pretty good machine shop.

[Cloud9]

Care, I'll let you know how it goes.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'D')avep, you either have no memory nor any shame. You should be embarressed to even bring that exchange up. I won't go through the details (unless you press me) but suffice it to say you displayed a a apparent lack of theoretical understanding plus you ignored the really pertinent fact; my conclusion that all the corn in the US would only power 1-2% of our auto fleet, based on the best energy return numbers from the most optimistic pro-ethanol study.

Here is the gist of my argument with you three years ago.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr back in 2008-01-13, 15:38:13 ', 'Y')ou do realize that the value on the top of the chart (1.39) is the one I referenced in my land-use analysis. Thus if corn ethanol returns 1.39 liters of ethanol for each liter used then all the arable land in the United States would only replace 19% of our gasoline needs (at 2.5 liters per bushel and 400 million arable acres). That does not include diesel or feedstocks. Thus everyone in the United States and all our food-exporting customers would starve to death so one in 5 could still drive to where? The morgue?

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', '.').. My pop said the 1st run was about 180 proof. The second run was around 80 and the third run was around 40. ...What I do have is a pretty good machine shop.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')How deep is your well? What kind of motor on it now?

[AdTheNad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')It would be great to have a nice government subsidized solar power setup, pumping to a big new water tank, placed high up the hill. Unfortunately, steal... er taking government subsidies would be a blow to my integrity, and I can not afford it on my own.