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Movie: "Atlas Shrugged"
Re: Atlas Shrugged: the movie
by Sixstrings » Mon 14 Feb 2011, 12:02:30
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '[')b]All the supposed "literary experts" that fail to see this blindingly obvious concept make me believe that either THEY are the hacks, or that they let their political emotionalism override their brains (or their honesty) when reading/reviewing Rand.
The customer is always right.. if the reader puts a book down because the story isn't engaging them, then the novelist has failed.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged: the movie
by PrestonSturges » Mon 14 Feb 2011, 13:27:34
I dunno, did Ayn Rand make much use of symbolism in her characters? Besides her "A=A" rants hardly seem to consistent with the use of symbolism in her fiction.
Who are the "altruists" who take stuff and give it away? If people take something, they keep it. Where are the prisons full of altruits? Even Rand's nemesis the USSR was all about taking from the poor and giving it to the elites.
Rand's characters aren't anything like actual human beings. But they always struck me as more stereotypes than symbolism. Although Rand condemned racism, many of her fans don't seem to have any trouble with ethnic and religious stereotypes or repealing the Civil Rights Act. If you sprinkled in a few ethnic slurs, her writing would be on par with any crappy white supremacist rant that reduces everyone to brutish stereotypes. Similarly, todays Tea Partiers live in a fantasy world where the AFL-CIO exists to spread Sharia law. I can't give them credit for "symbolism," it's more of a paranoid group hysteria that would be used to justify a witch hunt.
Who are the "altruists" who take stuff and give it away? If people take something, they keep it. Where are the prisons full of altruits? Even Rand's nemesis the USSR was all about taking from the poor and giving it to the elites.
Rand's characters aren't anything like actual human beings. But they always struck me as more stereotypes than symbolism. Although Rand condemned racism, many of her fans don't seem to have any trouble with ethnic and religious stereotypes or repealing the Civil Rights Act. If you sprinkled in a few ethnic slurs, her writing would be on par with any crappy white supremacist rant that reduces everyone to brutish stereotypes. Similarly, todays Tea Partiers live in a fantasy world where the AFL-CIO exists to spread Sharia law. I can't give them credit for "symbolism," it's more of a paranoid group hysteria that would be used to justify a witch hunt.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged: the movie
by crude_intentions » Mon 14 Feb 2011, 13:42:09
That movie just looks like it's going to blow but seeing as I enjoyed the novel i'll probably force myself to watch it anyway. I'm not an objectivist but I have found myself reading alot of her work as of late after reading Atlas Shrugged and the Goddess of the Market Biography.
I've found that most of the people who hate Ayn Rand either misunderstand her positions or misrepresent them. Such as her stance on Altrusim. Here is her defintion of Altrusim
1. Altruism http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/altruism.html
What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.
Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice—which means; self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction—which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.
The best BALANCED work I've read on Ayn Rand is Jennifer Burns Goddess of the Market. It's a great in depth "warts and all" look at her life and work.
P.S You can listen to Rand herself articulate her ideas at the Ayn Rand Multimedia Library http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reg_ar_library
I've found that most of the people who hate Ayn Rand either misunderstand her positions or misrepresent them. Such as her stance on Altrusim. Here is her defintion of Altrusim
1. Altruism http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/altruism.html
What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.
Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice—which means; self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction—which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.
The best BALANCED work I've read on Ayn Rand is Jennifer Burns Goddess of the Market. It's a great in depth "warts and all" look at her life and work.
P.S You can listen to Rand herself articulate her ideas at the Ayn Rand Multimedia Library http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reg_ar_library
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
- Albert Einstein
- Albert Einstein
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Re: Atlas Shrugged: the movie
by PrestonSturges » Mon 14 Feb 2011, 15:06:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crude_intentions', 'T')hat movie just looks like it's going to blow but seeing as I enjoyed the novel i'll probably force myself to watch it anyway. I'm not an objectivist but I have found myself reading alot of her work as of late after reading Atlas Shrugged and the Goddess of the Market Biography.
I've found that most of the people who hate Ayn Rand either misunderstand her positions or misrepresent them. Such as her stance on Altrusim. Here is her defintion of Altrusim
1. Altruism http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/altruism.html
What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.
I've found that most of the people who hate Ayn Rand either misunderstand her positions or misrepresent them. Such as her stance on Altrusim. Here is her defintion of Altrusim
1. Altruism http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/altruism.html
What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.
That seems consistent with atheist Libertarians, but I've never been able to square the circle regards whatever Rand Paul advocates ("libertarianism" run by a Christian theocracy).
That definition is something of a straw man arguement - a "moral code" implies religion, while actual governing is all about process. Saying that government is a "moral code" brings the whole arguement into the sewer of whether Jews or Muslims can be effective legislators because they don't have the right "moral code," and other distasteful examples come to mind.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged: the movie
by Ludi » Mon 14 Feb 2011, 16:42:31
I'm not convinced Rand's definitions of concepts are based on real life. They seem to be ideals, not something observed in reality. See her definitions of "capitalism," for instance.
She did not seem to have much of an idea how actual people behave, think, and feel.
She did not seem to have much of an idea how actual people behave, think, and feel.
- Ludi
Re: Atlas Shrugged: the movie
by Cog » Mon 14 Feb 2011, 17:54:48
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '[')b]All the supposed "literary experts" that fail to see this blindingly obvious concept make me believe that either THEY are the hacks, or that they let their political emotionalism override their brains (or their honesty) when reading/reviewing Rand.
The customer is always right.. if the reader puts a book down because the story isn't engaging them, then the novelist has failed.
The other option is that you failed as a reader.
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Apparently she couldn't even completely convince herself of her own philosophy (see link above to discussion of her accepting SS).
