Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE US Marines Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.
Post a reply

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby Blacksmith » Fri 18 Nov 2011, 04:02:11

Now let me get this straight. The US shut off China's mineral imports, China can't export to the US, Us can't buy cheap Chinese junk, US starts to manufacture again at prices no one can affort. Hmm China call in thier loans, US goes broke. Watch out Peal Harbour!
Employed senior
Blacksmith
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun 13 May 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Athabasca, Alberta
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 18 Nov 2011, 05:24:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'N')ow let me get this straight. The US shut off China's mineral imports, China can't export to the US, Us can't buy cheap Chinese junk, US starts to manufacture again at prices no one can affort. Hmm China call in thier loans, US goes broke. Watch out Peal Harbour!


Yep. Mutually assured destruction. :lol:

Strategically, this was a very smart move. It's time to give Obama some real credit on foreign policy -- he's gotten Australia to reaffirm they're in the US camp, and this has happened much sooner in the China endgame than I expected it to. National security wise, it's critical for the future that Australia remains with the US.

China can't be allowed to decouple from the US, they can't do that without Australia, therefore we must have a military presence in Australia. It's good for them too, this is their check on China.

I'm just surprised this has happened so soon. And I still wonder if this was an Obama success or mutual interests.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Fri 18 Nov 2011, 18:03:52

I wonder what Australian people think about this, don't know any so maybe they think it's a cool deal? or maybe not...

I'm thinking Indonesia might be concerned that they're about to be liberated...They've got Muslims over there don't they? and oil too!
ColossalContrarian
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Tue 20 Jun 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby Cog » Fri 18 Nov 2011, 19:28:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Strategically, this was a very smart move.


Yes. Its like we don't have enough overseas military bases already. :lol: :lol:

Every time you post on something outside your field of expertise, you give me a headache.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13416
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby radon » Fri 18 Nov 2011, 20:11:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', '
')Silly move really by Australia if it had a choice, which I doubt it did.


Strange to hear this from an Australian. A while ago SeaGypsy made a point that in substance Australia's security has been provided by the US for a long time already.

It is difficult to attack Australia because of the sea distances and logistics, but it also difficult to defend it, due to the relative lack of manpower and absence of the "strategic depth": while Australia's territory is huge, its population/production (non-mining) assets are concentrated in coastal areas and may not be transferred deeply inland because the continent is a non-inhabitable desert internally. Bomb the coast and you own the continent.

One way to defend yourselves in these circumstances is to develop and support a nuclear deterrent, preferably of such size and capabilities that it makes possible to inflict irrecoverable damage on a potential enemy. But this is totally unbearable economically.

Another way is to go for an alliance with a strong and friendly military power. Looks like the US is just what you need in the circumstances.

For the US having a military base in Australia probably makes much more sense than having those in many other places in the world.
radon
 
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 19 Nov 2011, 02:14:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Strategically, this was a very smart move.


Yes. Its like we don't have enough overseas military bases already. :lol: :lol:

Every time you post on something outside your field of expertise, you give me a headache.


So what, you don't think a Republican would have done this?

Other than your headache, can you counter my analysis?

Here's the current paradigm which I'm sure you know. The US gave its manufacturing jobs to China. This results in a massive trade deficit, which is mathematically unsustainable. The only way this unbalanced trade relationship can work is if China sends some of that cash back here by buying bonds, which is then redistributed by government. You don't like it, but that's how it's been for 30 odd years now.

If you don't like it Cog then you must be for raising tariffs and bringing the jobs back. That's something we can agree on. But China cannot just take the jobs and keep the money too -- the US will crash without liquidity coming back. All nations crash if they have sustained trade deficits -- THIS IS MATH, IT'S HISTORICAL FACT. The US is propped up only because the dollar is world reserve. If China stops buying our bonds and the big IF, if they get out of US dollars then we're screwed game over.

The day is coming when China and India will have their own domestic consumer markets and won't need us anymore for anything other than food. That's why this is a national security problem, and that's why the US gov is blocking China in Australia the same as we blocked Japan pre-WWII. The best check on your enemy is a military presence sitting right on top of his resources (Australia).

This is also in Australia's interest -- they're already too much under China's sway, we're their only protection against China pulling a Tibet on them.

Chinese national security interest is to keep us out of Australia, just as Japan wanted us and the British the hell away from the resources they needed. Which is why they preemptively attacked us at Pearl Harbor.

So what part don't you agree with? Or do you just hate it that Obama got it done?
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 19 Nov 2011, 02:32:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('radon', 'S')trange to hear this from an Australian.

...

Another way is to go for an alliance with a strong and friendly military power. Looks like the US is just what you need in the circumstances.

For the US having a military base in Australia probably makes much more sense than having those in many other places in the world.


Yup.

I dunno, people keep posting about some US backed plot to oust a prime minister back in the 70s.

Supposedly Australia is foreign controlled -- US banksters own their mines, sell the minerals to Chinese manufactures, then the plastic iStuff gets an Apple stamp and 1000% markup.

Despite outside meddling though, far as I can tell from reading, they have really good government.

Sounds like their PM got this one right. Kind of the same game a lot of countries played in the cold war, playing the US off the Soviets and coming out ahead.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 19 Nov 2011, 07:13:42

This is about the Spratly Islands.

China raises tensions over the Spratly Islands, War?


ASEAN leaders denounce use of ‘aggression’ in Spratlys row
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n its strongest statement since the series of flare-ups in the Spratly Islands between China and bloc members Philippines and Vietnam, Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) leaders on Thursday denounced military intimidation and provocative acts that could cause instability in the region.

In a statement issued at the end of their meeting, the ASEAN leaders renounced “aggression and the threat or use of force or other actions in any manner inconsistent with international law."

link


Clinton Reaffirms Military Ties With the Philippines
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')uring a high-profile visit to the Philippines on Wednesday, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton stood on the deck of a American warship in Manila Bay and reaffirmed the strong military relationship between the United States and the Philippines.

The visit comes at a time of heightening tensions in the South China Sea related to the oil-rich Spratly Islands, which are the subject of disputed claims by China, the Philippines and other Southeast Asian nations. By some estimates, the energy reserves in the areas being disputed by the various countries could rival those of Kuwait.

“We are making sure that our collective defense capabilities and communications infrastructure are operationally and materially capable of deterring provocations from the full spectrum of state and nonstate actors,” Mrs. Clinton said aboard the guided missile cruiser U.S.S. Fitzgerald.

link

Philippines and Vietnam Sign Naval Pact on Spratly Islands
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Philippines and Vietnam signed a naval cooperation pact despite the continuing disputes among several countries claiming the resource-rich Spratly Islands.

President Benigno Aquino III and visiting Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang on Wednesday signed an agreement calling for their navies and coast guards to set up a hotline and exchange information.

The two leaders also stressed that adherence to the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos) was important in the peaceful resolution of territorial issues in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea). The Unclos, enacted in 1982, states that a country’s exclusive economic zone extends 370 km from its continental shelf.

They also reiterated the importance of the full implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, which was signed in 2002 by Asean countries and China.

The countries with overlapping claims to the Spratlys are the Philippines, Vietnam, China, Malaysia and Taiwan. The Philippines has protested China’s intrusions into Recto Bank. Invoking the Unclos, the Philippines maintains that there should be no dispute over territories like Recto Bank, which is a mere 148 kilometers away from the province of Palawan and 1,017 km away from China.

link


Philippines roils South China Sea
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')ensions are rising again as China and the Philippines bump boats and trade diplomatic barbs over the contested Spratly Islands in the South China Sea. Adding fuel to the fire were recent "war games" staged by 3,000 American and Filipino marines near the hotly disputed maritime territory.

The latest row was sparked by alleged intrusions into each other's claimed area in the potentially oil-and-gas rich chain of islands, where more than 50% of the world's merchant fleet tonnage passes each year. It also comes ahead of a crucial East Asian Summit meeting later this month in Bali, Indonesia where world leaders will be in attendance and the issue on the agenda.

The latest incident, the ninth since March between the two rival Asian claimants, involved a Philippine warship that China alleges strayed into its sovereign waters on October 19. The Philippine ship became entangled with the cables of a Chinese fishing vessel, which at the time was towing 23 unmanned dinghies.

Filipino naval authorities admitted that its warship, the BRP Rizal, experienced a steering problem that led to its "accidental" collision with the cables of the Chinese fishing boat, which abandoned the dinghies and immediately left the scene. The Chinese vessel was spotted near the Reed Bank, which lies near the island of Palawan within the Philippines' 250-mile exclusive economic zone stipulated under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The Global Times, the English language companion of the China Communist Party's People's Daily newspaper, warned the Philippines against provoking China into taking retaliatory military action. "A counter-attack is likely," the newspaper said in a strongly worded editorial, adding that the Philippines "should prepare for the sound of cannons" from China.

In the same paper, Chinese columnist Long Tao urged Beijing to wage "tiny-scale battles" against both the Philippines and Vietnam "to teach them a lesson."

That war of words came against the backdrop of annual US-Philippine military exercises, known as Phiblex 2011, where the two sides tested and updated their inter-operability in line with their broad strategic alliance. The maneuvers were previously limited to ground warfare and focused on counter-terrorism operations, but in recent years the exercises have shifted to the seas, including in areas near the Spratlys.

The exercises included a mechanized amphibious assault, small boat raid, parachute operations, combined arms exercises utilizing aircraft and mortars, and artillery and live-fire training, according to the US Marines website. The US 3rd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, the only forward deployed marine expeditionary unit and US's force in readiness in the Asia Pacific region, took part in the exercises, according to the website.

link


What's more important than the 2,500 marines are the aircraft we will be basing there within range of the Spratly Islands and the South China Sea.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
User avatar
Cid_Yama
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Sun 27 May 2007, 03:00:00
Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby Cog » Sat 19 Nov 2011, 07:50:52

Six,

You have evidently forgotten that peak oil trumps the USA's desire to remain an empire and China's desire to create one. Humanity is heading down into the Olduvai gorge and all the flag waving and troops stationed around the world isn't going to stop that slide.

Geology sucks because we can't order it around and spin fairy tales to create what is not there. When you reach hard resource constraints, the credit problems you see with the USA, and yes China as well, become irrelevant to the real issue facing humanity. That being too many people and not enough oil to keep them alive.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13416
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan
Top

Re: Obama to deploy 2,500 US marines to Australia, new base

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 20 Nov 2011, 03:06:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'S')ix,

You have evidently forgotten that peak oil trumps the USA's desire to remain an empire and China's desire to create one. Humanity is heading down into the Olduvai gorge and all the flag waving and troops stationed around the world isn't going to stop that slide.

Geology sucks because we can't order it around and spin fairy tales to create what is not there. When you reach hard resource constraints, the credit problems you see with the USA, and yes China as well, become irrelevant to the real issue facing humanity. That being too many people and not enough oil to keep them alive.


Fiat is just paper.

But Australia's mines are real. And Spratly oil is real.

We're talking about resource wars here -- how does that not fit in the peak oil timeline?
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top
Previous
Post a reply

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests



cron