[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', 't')hose states were just gangsters grabbing both the political and economic power for themselves under the banner of liberating the worker. Pretty much what your quote from Popper was saying.

[PrestonSturges]

Popper wrote about how various schools of authoritarian thought had common ancestors, but in practice they tend to end up as a generic authoritarian state.

He was very focused on Communism, probably because it seemed like it has a real shot a world domination, while fascism had apparently almost vanished.

If he were alive now, he'd be talking about a resurgence of a fascism's racist ideology as part of his historical cycles of anti-intellectual hysteria.

Almost certainly he'd be getting denounced daily on the Glenn Beck show as one of the international Jewish puppet masters.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Whenever socialists have taken power and instituted a socialist economy, the economy has done rather poorly. AND, because the destruction of the private sector leaves all economic and political power concentrated in the hands of the state,

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'P')opper wrote about how various schools of authoritarianuptopian thought had common ancestors, but in practice they tend to end up as a generic authoritarian state.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '
')In my opinion the genius of democracy is very simple. Its change. You have a system where there is a change in ideas every 5-10 years....You dont get the same mistakes constantly repeated. It may sound facile but all politicians screw up, democracies mean that someone new screws up in a different way every few years and the system sort of responds to peoples demands (not well but its there).

I also think the other great achievement of democracy is one that is almost never mentioned. No one wins. Its always compromises, the right think that a right wing government is selling out to the liberals\ left, the left think their government is just the right in sheeps cloathing. But because there is no absolute triumph, everyone has some stake in the society and everyone feels that they will get their turn (although they also feel their turn is never as good as it should be). You have a society where there is no real push for a violent change of government because its not worth the effort because you are getting something out of it and well you muddle through.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'P')opper wrote about how various schools of authoritarianu topian thought had common ancestors, but in practice they tend to end up as a generic authoritarian state.

[PrestonSturges]

In Popper framework, the Marxists fell victim to "historicism," which was to interpret history through only a single view (not sure if he was around long enough to criticize feminist studies). The Marxist's tried to explain everything as "class struggle," and tended to overlook important facts.

But we can compare Fascism and Marxism on key philosophical points. The differences between Fascism and Marxism are fundamental:

Fascism is explicitly racist and focused on racial purity. Communism is not racist, which allowed it to spread to many countries. Fascism attacks immigrants as the "enemy within."

Fascism condemns "class warfare" and creates new classes that may reduce certain people to slaves. Communism is all about "class struggle"

Fascism protects private property and factory owners. Communism promises that the workers will control the "means of production."

Fascism is a "spiritual" movement and condemns Communism's "materialism" (pseudo scientific rules). Marx used "dialectic materialism."

Fascism is almost never atheist. It may embrace organized religion, but it will usually use "syncretism" - a mixture of beliefs. Fascist countries may have an official state religion, and Hitler came to power by pandering to Christians. Communist societies are often officially atheist.

Fascism will destroy society to return to the Utopian past. Socialism will destroy society to create the Utopian future.

Fascism believes human nature is cemented by their racial identity - people don't change. Communism believes that man and nature are plastic and can be molded by society. People in China and Russia starved because their crop scientists were forced to reject genetics.

[Shaved Monkey]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', 't')hose states were just gangsters grabbing both the political and economic power for themselves under the banner of liberating the worker. Pretty much what your quote from Popper was saying.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Whenever socialists have taken power and instituted a socialist economy, the economy has done rather poorly. AND, because the destruction of the private sector leaves all economic and political power concentrated in the hands of the state,

[PrestonSturges]

Someone mentioned Ayn Rand. She was pissed over the loss of the family estate in Russia. It's not like she was a big "creator," she was angry over the loss of her inheritance.

Anyway, where Hayek made himself a fool with the "slippery slope" (Finnish day care will lead to a gulag), Rand's whole argument was a straw man - that there are "altruists" who simply take stuff and then give it away. Really? Where are the prisons full of street criminal altruists? In real life the world is full of sociopaths who take stuff and keep it. And one of the warning signs of sociopaths is they always always always use straw man arguments to convince people they are being saved from some boogy man.