[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '
')
I believe in libertarian democracy. I don't believe there is a god-given right to an SUV, a McMansion, even food, though from a pragmatic standpoint it is very difficult to have a bunch of starving people between where food is being produced and where people with money want to consume it. I think my views are shared by most of the folks running the financial world. Some people will have to give up their homes and their cars, and while I wish there was something I could do about it, Malthus and Ehrlich tell me I can't.

We're social creatures and we have a duty as individuals to do what we can to correct the problems right in front of us as we are reasonably able. If there's a thousand starving people in front of you, you obviously can't feed them all, but maybe you should give some of what you can save to help them.

On the political hand, everyone in this country has been given certain inalienable God-given rights. But on the financial hand, if you're in the top 10%, you really only care about what happens- financially- to the top 10%. If the bottom 90% have to give up their 5000 square foot homes financed by subprime mortgages along with their 10 MPG hummers, that's not your problem. You paid cash for a rusty 35 mpg Honda years ago and you own your 2000 square foot home outright. Now you can go out and pay cash for a 50 mpg Ducati 848 and help a member of the bottom 90% keep the lights on.

There will be no mass arrests, concentration camps, government clampdowns etc as predicted five years ago on this site. People will declare bankruptcy and never be able to get a loan again, but otherwise nothing will happen to them. We are a libertarian state, and the corporations, top 10%, and eventually the pols will say, "Oh. That's too bad. Guess you're screwed" if people lose their homes or have trouble feeding their families, and life will move on.

I'm not sure we'll get to that point. Fertility rates have come down significantly since 2008, and if we pay the bottom 20% to get vasectomies and stop having 20 kids with five different women, they will fall further.

[Cloud9]

If you want to see what government can do in a real crisis, look to New Orleans. If you plan on a post crash life, look to yourself.

[GoIllini]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'Y')our fourth paragraph describes what is essentially a Third World country, if not countries like China: no "mass arrests, concentration camps, government clampdowns" as long as people accept their plight and "move on." Otherwise....

[dolanbaker]

Communist countries were defined as "second world countries". http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/second_world.htm

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', 'U')nless we have a communist revolution, though, the top 80% who do not depend on welfare will probably be ok.

[GoIllini]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', 'U')nless we have a communist revolution, though, the top 80% who do not depend on welfare will probably be ok.

[Crusty]

"Gradual?" Gee I hope your right but it's not looking like that at the moment. Think I might extend my Vege Patch now.

[Loki]

I'd hardly call 20% of the American population dying from famine in our lifetime “inavertable” (I think the word you're groping for is "inevitable"). It would take truly sociopathic politics to allow that to happen, peak oil or no. It's fantasy.

Besides, the "let them eat cake" policy didn't work out so well for its last proponents.

[Cloud9]

The collapse is here. We are living it right now. Open your eyes. Look at Detroit. Look at the economy. Look at local governments. We just refuse to accept it.

[GoIllini]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')he collapse is here. We are living it right now. Open your eyes. Look at Detroit. Look at the economy. Look at local governments. We just refuse to accept it.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')he collapse is here. We are living it right now. Open your eyes. Look at Detroit. Look at the economy. Look at local governments. We just refuse to accept it.

[GoIllini]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')This is a jaundiced opinion of the actual facts. Using a sliver of those in poverty that are looking to milk the system ignores the recent actual statistics that real wages on average have decreased while everyday many workers that once thought of themselves as middle class sink below the poverty line. Mostly through no falt of their own. Meanwhile, your so called real workers on Wall Street play a ponzi scheme of fast rewards for exorbitant bonuses that in reality produce no tangible value. Which is why we're seeing this house of cards tumble.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', 'U')nless we have a communist revolution, though, the top 80% who do not depend on welfare will probably be ok.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '
')No, it describes an authoritarian state. Want to see a third world country? One with a government looks like Peru; one without a government looks like Somalia. Neither of them are repressive.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', 'U')nless we have a communist revolution, though, the top 80% who do not depend on welfare will probably be ok.

[GoIllini]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '
')Gee, thanks for proving my point.

[ralfy]

Related:

"On the cusp of collapse: Complexity, energy & the globalised economy"

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2 ... ed-economy

"5 Reasons Why American Riots Will Be The Worst In The World"

http://dont-tread-on.me/5-reasons-why-a ... the-world/

Some may disagree with the thesis of the second article, but there are some interesting points given that may be verified, such as the JIT system and no. of days of food, fuel, and various drugs available, etc.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '
')Not really. Your point was that we were all going to be turned into Soylent green. My point is that some people may starve, but no human rights will be violated.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '
')Sure, interesting how this was preceded by seven years of Guns and Butter under LBJ's guns-n-butter policies of paying for poor peoples' healthcare, housing, and living expenses. See a theme here?