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THE Terror / Terrorism Thread pt 4 (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Fishman » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 20:16:27

Love your logic Pretorian. Except Iranians routinely "attacking" their own people, heck lettum kill off the Saudi ambassador, when they're killing off each other and gas is $10 a gallon, your great wisdom will do us so much good. Gosh I miss the q 3 months "Bush is going to attack the Iranians anytime now"
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 20:50:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'S')trange, O knew about this for some time but this comes out just as it looks like Holder is getting slammed for Fast and Furious. Wag the Dog?


A lot of things don't make sense, eh?

We SUPPLY Mexican drug cartels with GUNS supposedly so that when they use those guns we can track the guns and prosecute them cuz hey, we gave the guns to them in the first place. 8O

That whole thing is bizarre. Makes no sense. So I don't know what to believe anymore.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Pretorian » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 20:58:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'L')ove your logic Pretorian. Except Iranians routinely "attacking" their own people, heck lettum kill off the Saudi ambassador, when they're killing off each other and gas is $10 a gallon, your great wisdom will do us so much good. Gosh I miss the q 3 months "Bush is going to attack the Iranians anytime now"


By anybody I meant " an independent country" obviously. May be you suggest USA never killed Iranians or it's own people?
As for the gas, I'd love to pay $20 or $30 a gallon , it's way better than $10 traffic jam and safety-wise.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:00:26

Ok I read the article here are pertinent details:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U').S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in an announcement today that the plan was "conceived, sponsored and was directed from Iran" by a faction of the government and called it a "flagrant" violation of U.S. and international law.

"The U.S. is committed to holding Iran accountable for its actions," Holder said.

...

Senior Obama administration officials said the U.S. currently does not have any information indicating that either Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei or President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad necessarily knew about the assassination plot and said the U.S. will pursue a path of response that would not include the possibility of an armed conflict with Iran.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-iran-tied-terror-plot-washington-dc-disrupted/story?id=14711933


Well sounds like the Obama admin is handling it all appropriately, we're not going to war, we do need more details though. Here's the thing.. there IS a problem with radical islam in that whole region. We could be attacked by even our own allies, not directly but from radicals in their population who may also have connections to government. The whole thing is a mess.

It's water under the bridge now but after 9/11 what we should have done was imposed a forced settlement of the Israeli issue. We should have forced it on the Israelis and the Palestinians. Enough is enough, we've had enough, we're the new Rome stop causing us trouble here's how it's gonna be. That's what we should have done.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby careinke » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:07:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.')

It's water under the bridge now but after 9/11 what we should have done was imposed a forced settlement of the Israeli issue. We should have forced it on the Israelis and the Palestinians. Enough is enough, we've had enough, we're the new Rome stop causing us trouble here's how it's gonna be. That's what we should have done.


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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:15:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I') see, the solution to Empire is more Empire.


We're Empire anyway.

And.. aren't you tired of the middle east mess? It's been going on since I was a kid, before I was born, and honestly thousands of years before that. It's just my opinion but our response after 9/11 should have been to get at the root of the problem and impose a settlement once and for all.

I'm sure a reasonable person could sit down and figure out which land Israel ought to give back. Figure out something FAIR to both sides.

Neither side would like it, but in the interest of our own national security that's what we should have done. Either that or abandon Israel to themselves.. president after president goes over there and tries to broker a settlement and gets turned down. It's gotten ridiculous. We're the lone superpower in the world, the israeli-palestinian problem is our biggest natl security threat, we should either sort this crap out or be neutral.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:22:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Plantagenet » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:20:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')I'm sure a reasonable person could sit down and figure out which land Israel ought to give back. Figure out something FAIR to both sides. Neither side would like it, but in the interest of our own national security that's what we should have done.


Iran wants Israel completely destroyed. So does Assad in Syria. So does Hezbollah in Lebanon.

So does Hamas in Gaza (and they are already sitting on land Israel gave back).

And so do the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (and Israel already gave Sinai back to Egypt.)

Just making Israel give back land won't bring peace in the middle east.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Cloud9 » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:32:46

There is no solution beyond leaving one faction standing. Nobody is ready for that so the killing will go on. Looks like the Christians are catching it in Egypt.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:53:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'J')ust making Israel give back land won't bring peace in the middle east.


True, but at least we could say we tried; i.e. here's your fair solution, now if you still cause trouble we roll tanks.

But maybe these troubles will sort themselves out. A lot of the muslim problem is that their poor are so backward, we're talking dark ages shariah law and all that.. with the internet though things are changing. They're gradually getting up to speed with the rest of the world. There are some smart things we could be doing to help speed westernization -- how about widespread internet access for Afghans? American culture is powerful; if we can Westernize them, even a little bit, they won't be an enemy.

What we ought to fight, and which can be fought peacefully, is fundamentalist islam that's stuck five hundred years in the past.

That's another thing we should have done back when Bush said "you're with us or against us." We should have pushed KSA to modernize and do something about the fundamentalist madrassas (sp?).
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Loki » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:57:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
the U.S. will pursue a path of [b]response that would not include the possibility of an armed conflict with Iran

And here's one instance where I'm glad Obama is president. McCain would have bombed, bombed, bombed Iran within the hour. Of course, guess we'll have to wait and see. Obama hasn't exactly turned out to be the "peace candidate" like so many of his supporters assumed he would be, despite his many pronouncements to the contrary (he made no secret of his plans to ramp up the war in Afghanistan, or his unwavering support of Israeli belligerence).
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Pretorian » Tue 11 Oct 2011, 22:55:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')I'm sure a reasonable person could sit down and figure out which land Israel ought to give back. Figure out something FAIR to both sides. Neither side would like it, but in the interest of our own national security that's what we should have done.


Iran wants Israel completely destroyed. So does Assad in Syria. So does Hezbollah in Lebanon.

So does Hamas in Gaza (and they are already sitting on land Israel gave back).

And so do the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (and Israel already gave Sinai back to Egypt.)

Just making Israel give back land won't bring peace in the middle east.


And why would that be of any concern to an Alaskan? Seriously?
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Keith_McClary » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 00:12:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'W')e SUPPLY Mexican drug cartels with GUNS supposedly so that when they use those guns we can track the guns and prosecute them cuz hey, we gave the guns to them in the first place.
You busted Osama's driver for having Stinger missiles in the trunk, which, of course, you gave them.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Keith_McClary » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 00:18:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'J')ust making Israel give back land won't bring peace in the middle east.

And why would that be of any concern to an Alaskan? Seriously?
Ahmadinejad suggested moving Israel to Alaska.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby careinke » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 00:29:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I') see, the solution to Empire is more Empire.


We're Empire anyway.

And.. aren't you tired of the middle east mess? It's been going on since I was a kid, before I was born, and honestly thousands of years before that. It's just my opinion but our response after 9/11 should have been to get at the root of the problem and impose a settlement once and for all.

I'm sure a reasonable person could sit down and figure out which land Israel ought to give back. Figure out something FAIR to both sides.

Neither side would like it, but in the interest of our own national security that's what we should have done. Either that or abandon Israel to themselves.. president after president goes over there and tries to broker a settlement and gets turned down. It's gotten ridiculous. We're the lone superpower in the world, the israeli-palestinian problem is our biggest natl security threat, we should either sort this crap out or be neutral.


I have spent many hours discussing this with RSAF officers (who were primarily Wahhabi Sunni's). Bottom line, there really is no solution. Jerusalem alone is a total nightmare with Islamic sacred ground built on top of Jewish sacred ground, Christian stuff built on top of Islamic stuff, Jewish stuff built on top of it all. Add to it that Muslims believe there will be a final battle between all three "people of the book". In the final battle the Christians and Jews start out on the same side. But then, Jesus shows up and has the Christians join the Arabs in killing all the Jews. Oh yea, the trees and rocks rat out the Jews when they try to hide behind them.

I'm pretty sure the Jews also have their own version of Armageddon.

I feel rather than try to solve these unsolvable problems, the US should just back out, it is not our fight, and not worth our blood and treasure. We produce a lot of food, would it not be better to trade with them instead of trying to kill them?
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Keith_McClary » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 00:30:29

U.S. Accuses Iranians of Plotting to Kill Saudi Envoy
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ecretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton expressed her incredulity in an interview with The Associated Press.

“The idea that they would attempt to go to a Mexican drug cartel to solicit murder-for-hire to kill the Saudi ambassador, nobody could make that up, right?” she asked
Nobody? How about the folks who made up the Iraq WMD's?
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby gollum » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 01:10:10

How about this, no peace.... No more American dollars for either party.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby PrestonSturges » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 01:18:16

One of the problems with Iran is that it's hard to tell who's in charge of anything. As much as Fox likes to demonize Ahmadinejad, it's not clear that he has any authority and he has been publicly humiliated by the governments religious hard liners.

We didn't go to war when Orlando Letelier was blown up by a massive car bomb on Embassy Row in DC in 1976. That was probably Pinochet's Operation Condor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letelier_case

But it seems tailor made for Romney, who has gone full neocon chickenhawk, and no doubt someone will once more try to say that this proves something about how Obama is weak blah blah blah, and we need to go invade Iran, which is twice as big as Iraq and really mountainous.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby Keith_McClary » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 02:08:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I')'m pretty sure the Jews also have their own version of Armageddon.
The Christian fundies have one, isn't the Jews version be the same?
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby PrestonSturges » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 02:10:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I') see, the solution to Empire is more Empire.


We're Empire anyway.

And.. aren't you tired of the middle east mess? It's been going on since I was a kid, before I was born, and honestly thousands of years before that. It's just my opinion but our response after 9/11 should have been to get at the root of the problem and impose a settlement once and for all.

I'm sure a reasonable person could sit down and figure out which land Israel ought to give back. Figure out something FAIR to both sides.

Neither side would like it, but in the interest of our own national security that's what we should have done. Either that or abandon Israel to themselves.. president after president goes over there and tries to broker a settlement and gets turned down. It's gotten ridiculous. We're the lone superpower in the world, the israeli-palestinian problem is our biggest natl security threat, we should either sort this crap out or be neutral.


I have spent many hours discussing this with RSAF officers (who were primarily Wahhabi Sunni's). Bottom line, there really is no solution. Jerusalem alone is a total nightmare with Islamic sacred ground built on top of Jewish sacred ground, Christian stuff built on top of Islamic stuff, Jewish stuff built on top of it all. Add to it that Muslims believe there will be a final battle between all three "people of the book". In the final battle the Christians and Jews start out on the same side. But then, Jesus shows up and has the Christians join the Arabs in killing all the Jews. Oh yea, the trees and rocks rat out the Jews when they try to hide behind them.

I'm pretty sure the Jews also have their own version of Armageddon.

I feel rather than try to solve these unsolvable problems, the US should just back out, it is not our fight, and not worth our blood and treasure. We produce a lot of food, would it not be better to trade with them instead of trying to kill them?

The idea that Iran is going to nuke Israel and contaminate Jerusalem is of course absurd. It's just one of those scams like a "balanced budget amendment" that is a direct insult to anyone with a brain.
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Re: Iran plots terror attack on US soil

Postby careinke » Wed 12 Oct 2011, 05:14:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I')'m pretty sure the Jews also have their own version of Armageddon.
The Christian fundies have one, isn't the Jews version be the same?


I'm not sure. I don't know a lot about either the Jewish or Christian fundies religious beliefs. I know a fare amount about Islam, as I was proselytized to for over 9 years.
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