[nobodypanic]

clearly the implication is smart people shouldn't behave this way. well no matter, i'll agree with you for the sake of argument... so now, once these people are no longer able to consume via credit, demand slides and along w/it goes the economy. so you see, the system depends on these folk, and to the degree that we depend on the system, well so do we. it's an insurmountable contradiction.

[Pretorian]

Why , smart people also behave like this.. when they get a terminal cancer or a similar calamity that is. Or when they get to write off all of their debts every 7 years or so.
Anyway, what do you mean by saying that system depends on these people spending? Almost 200 million people do not work at all. Out of 100 million that does, 90% + do not produce anything of value , with a majority doing pretty much nothing. Out of those 10 mln who does, majority are cracking just to maintain the above mentioned 290 mln. So they are also a useless labor since whatever they make is swallowed by a useless, non-productive crowd. So we probably have 2 or 3 million people who are actually needed ( that includes producers and their service providers). These 2 or 3 mln with members of their families could have fairly decent lives if they didn't have to take care of everybody else. Like working 2 hours a week to afford their water-front mansions , aston martins, that sort of living.
So basically the whole "system " is exploitation of the above mentioned 2-3 mln for the sake of everybody else.
And obviously there is a need to make everyone busy shuffling papers , moving things from one place to another and back:
1) so the original producers don't get upset too much (see, life isn't easy for everybody, so go dig that coal 1 mile below the surface and don't fret much about low salary)
2) so the original useless crowd does not relax their buns too much ( it should be ready for wars, sudden mega-construction projects, to replace producers, to be used as a living furniture/toilet paper, sex dolls, entertainment and innovating talent, that sort of things)
3) so the useless crowd won't stand in the way of the productive crowd , and behaves itself ( property values depend on that ).
4) so whomever managed to dominate both crowds ( either through a brutal power (dictatorship) or sweet lies (Democracy) )will have a blast riding on their necks.

That is your system

[evilgenius]

All con men say that about the world full of marks.

[misterno]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', 'r')eceived by email... pretty funny
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')JOE vs. JOSE

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have
two parents, two children, and live in California ..

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes
$25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number,
and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention....

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00
per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has
$31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0
0 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his
family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has
$24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose
Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year.
Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC
and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has 9,631 ..00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Jose
Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose
Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of
that is uninsured motorist insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
etc..

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month..

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same elementary
school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches, while Jose Illegal's
children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an
after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Now, when they reach college age, Joe Legal's kids may not get into a
State School and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition
help, even though Joe has been paying for State Schools through his taxes,
while Jose Illegal's kids "go to the head of the class" because they are a
minority.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

[Pretorian]

An illegal can get food stamps legally if any of his/her litter was spawned on US territory; there is also plenty of fraud with fake numbers, etc.
Maintaining Illegals cost a pretty penny to each US taxpayer, only a clueless idiot will be denying this.

[evilgenius]

And besides, like I said, why doesn't Joe make more in the first place? Oh, that's right Pretorian's 2-3 million are using his wages to buy yachts, fast cars, loose women, companies, you name it. And now that we are crying out as a nation to tax the SOB's they are countering with talk about how that's just going to make us all poor. What a crock!

[rangerone314]

I read an article about a fair number of Americans are giving up on America because they can't find work and moving to places like China to find work. Maybe Joe should just move to China.

[prajeshbhat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I') read an article about a fair number of Americans are giving up on America because they can't find work and moving to places like China to find work. Maybe Joe should just move to China.