Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Peak Oil. RIP

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.
Post a reply

Unread postby FoxV » Sun 22 May 2005, 22:48:27

May I also point at that that article is a press release and the information in it is straight from the SynGas marketers.

Before we can consider it a solution or bunk, it needs to be verified by a scientific report, or show some investment to building a large scale project. Untill then its just somebody's neat idea with no real proof of what it can do.

Lets not forget Turkey depolimerization(no comments on spelling please :roll: ). Just because it does what it says it can, and somebody spends huge amounts of money on it, doesn't mean its a good idea.

But who knows, maybe this will be able to save us like other New Age marvels such as the Hydrogen economy
Angry yet?
FoxV
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed 02 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Canada
Top

Unread postby joewp » Mon 23 May 2005, 00:38:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'T')he technology uses biomass. Where's the biomass going to come from?


When I hear questions like this, I keep thinking "Soylent Green".
[smilie=5eek.gif]

For some chilling reason, I can't dismiss the possibility of rich people using human biomass to get around. Do you think Paris Hilton would know or care?
Joe P. joeparente.com
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
User avatar
joewp
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2054
Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Keeping dry in South Florida
Top

Unread postby pea-jay » Mon 23 May 2005, 02:13:46

The good news: methane digesters can produce gas from ordinary waste products and there are good sites on the net on how to make one yourself. This is not a revolutionary idea.

The bad news: There ain't enough biomass out there to meet current demand levels. Like many renewable energy resources out there, it just won't scale up to meet our obscene energetic requirements.
UNplanning the future...
http://unplanning.blogspot.com
User avatar
pea-jay
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sat 17 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: NorCal
Top

Unread postby BiGG » Thu 26 May 2005, 09:09:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
Nature does not create waste! How hard is that to understand?


Your uneducated assertion is not hard to understand at all; it’s just that you have no idea of what you are talking about here. You have zero expertise in this field and should not be making claims you know nothing about.

There is plenty of “waste” that can be utilized every year from “nature” according to the many knowledgeable scientists from around the world including those at our Department of Agriculture who created the sustainable billion+ ton minimum report regarding annual biomass waste from agriculture & forestry practices in the United States. I’m sure they know a lot more about this topic then you do so either come back with something legitimate that can refute that report, or stop making claims you cannot substantiate here. This report says sustainable waste alone can provide 30% of our current fuel usage and this is just the waste, not the crop itself.

Summery of that report linked here

Full report in PDF Format linked here

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat "waste" is nutrients that future plants need in order to grow. Burning it creates CO2 that does not turn back into nutrients overnight.


Only part of the “waste” is needed for “sustainable” forestry/agriculture and the process we are talking about creates half the CO2 of the current process along with zero airborne emissions of the current process! Kinda sounds win-win to me.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ven if it works (and it's highly unlikely), are we doing it? NO. We aren't even talking about it.


It's a new process; give them a little time here, they just announced this a few weeks ago! Fairchild just bought SynGas in March and they bought it just to get their hands on this new technology! Whatever the case, it apparently works great if they "garnered interest from various levels of government and industry worldwide” like the website says!


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ll of these almost magical alternatives aren't being given government $$$. They aren't being talked about in The Papers. They aren't being given Big Energy dollars. They aren't being built anywhere even close to fast enough.


Lots of products are created without money from government (it’s a time consuming hassle getting government money for one thing) or other industries and this product was created in-house by a company called Syngas Energy Corp. (a developer of advanced integrated gasification production system technologies that produce energy in the form or methane and natural gas as well as electricity)

As far as building things “fast”, there has never been a problem with that at all. These could be in place in a matter of a few years if needed and it’s not like we are running out of current oil or gas anytime soon anyway. We do haves decades worth of the stuff minimum.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')iGG, you need to eventually understand that your way of life (and excuse me if you are in fact, a self-sufficient organic farmer) is not going to survive Peak Oil. I know, it's difficult to accept. You need to give up these foolish notions about SynGas and Methane from Jupiter.


Don’t tell me what’s difficult to “accept”, speak for yourself here only because I think our way of life is going to be better in the future. Also, do yourself a favor and stop claiming something like SynGas is a “foolish notion” when you know nothing about it, AND surly don’t start playing games like putting words in my mouth regarding things like “Methane from Jupiter” because I never said a word about that period. You are the one with the foolish notion here thinking it prudent to assert I ever said something like that.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')othing can compare to the energy source that is oil. Nothing. Primary Energy Science does not change overnight.


Possibly no one thing, but the combination of things already slated for replacing oil can. You gotta remember we are getting away from using that dirty, filthy, unhealthy, environmentally unfriendly shit anyway and not because it will be depleted several decades from now at the earliest.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')TW, the current plan (created by the same folks that brought you Gulf Wars 1 and 2) is to go to war over what's left of the oil, not build a substitue. That means, screw you BiGG. Screw you and your lifestyle. We (The Powerful) are going to screw you and your petty bourgeoise brothers so that We may maintain our status.


I am one of “them”. I don’t think like you do and neither does anybody I know. It’s about US, not “US” against “Them”
"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
User avatar
BiGG
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Unread postby Devil » Thu 26 May 2005, 09:35:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BiGG', ' ')I don’t think like you do and neither does anybody I know.

'
At last, he admits that he is the only soldier in step. Nobody thinks like he does!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D
Devil
User avatar
Devil
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Tue 06 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Cyprus
Top

Unread postby BiGG » Thu 26 May 2005, 10:10:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Devil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BiGG', ' ')I don’t think like you do and neither does anybody I know.

'
At last, he admits that he is the only soldier in step. Nobody thinks like he does!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D


Basic reading comprehension would afford you the privilege of figuring out that’s not what I said at all sweetie. If that’s the problem, let me help you out here and explain how I was saying I don’t know anybody that thinks along the conspiracy theory lines asserted by the poster I was responding to, nor do I think anything like that myself. So if you were genuinely clueless I hope this further education helps out.

If you were just flaming again, at least make sure you aren’t the one walking away looking like an idiot by missing something that simple and you should take note that posts “void of content” & “trolling” are against the Code of Conduct here. For such a self-proclaimed smart guy, you should at least be able to follow the rules and you not doing that makes the idiocy of your post double!
"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
User avatar
BiGG
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Unread postby Starvid » Thu 26 May 2005, 12:07:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')f it were cheaper than current gas, it would be produced by every major energy company. Exxon could make BILLIONS off of something like this. They aren't investing because it's a bad investment. The cheap website advertises the fact that this company is a joke.
Not necessarily. This is a new technology, is it not? With your logic electricity is useless beacuse if it was useful they should already have used during the 14th century.

Sometimes people do invent things that are better than what we have today, you know.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
User avatar
Starvid
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun 20 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Top

Re: Peak Oil. RIP

Unread postby BiGG » Thu 26 May 2005, 13:15:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')
There is no inexpensive process that includes "wood waste." Industrial timbering is completely dependent on machinery including saws, loaders, trucks, mills, and transport. The "waste" chips and sawdust go into particle board, resin/wood composites, co-generation, etc. The "waste" bark is used as a soil amendent in agriculture. The same could be said about coal -- you know coal oil, tar, dyes, etc.


The “machinery” involved in current forestry is already in place harvesting the trees so hardly anything additional is needed except transporting the “waste” to the processing center. The “waste” is the stumps, branches, treetops and other foliage left in forests by logging firms along with bark. Sustainable forestry allows billions of tons of this to be used with zero problems.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f the "waste" is too expensive to use now why would it be cheaper later when it's production is more expensive?


Who says “waste” is too expensive to use now? There is nothing it’s used for where I live (I’m surrounded by millions of acres of sustainable forestry operations). They just leave it rotting on the ground releasing CO2 the whole time. Here is an article showing scientists wanting to get rid of the waste just to cut down on CO2 emissions around the planet.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nother essential problem with all these "waste" (biomass, TD) conversion schemes is that the waste is highly distributed. Most wood mills and coal mines are small and all over the place. How do you get the stuff to centralized facilities for processing? It takes cheap oil.


Who are you to claim these are “schemes”? Scientists all over the world claim otherwise and have proven you wrong already.

And that “cheap oil” you are mentioning has replacements also. Ethanol doesn’t cost over $5.00 per gallon like oil does right now so there is no problem there either. Some of you need to realize “bio” is your future.
"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
User avatar
BiGG
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Unread postby BiGG » Thu 26 May 2005, 13:27:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') used to be an idiot when I lived in suburbia. Now I live in the Pacific Northwest where construction lumber (Douglas Fir) comes from. I know why we have had cheap housing for 75 years and another idiotic housing boom. This time we are clearing out the forests forever. The remaining sticks won't be useful for timber for 1,000 years. It will take that long for the soil and the trees to return.


That’s not true at all, there may be a few places getting clear cut but that is the land owners right. Your state has how many billion dollars worth of “sustainable” forestry going on right now every year? Plus, there is no such thing as a forest that takes a thousand years to return and if the land owner wants to they could plant things like hybrid poplar that would be 60’ tall six years from now or many other very fast growing trees. Evergreens surrounding me are cut & replanted every 12-15 years. My state does 2 billion annually in sustainable forestry, how much does yours do and how much do the other 48 do?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here won't be enough nuclear power on the planet to make it worthwhile for anyone to waste their time going up these mountain roads to harvest those twigs. Sorry


There will be plenty of power for everyone except the fear mongers hiding in their caves and even they can have power if they pay their bills.
"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
User avatar
BiGG
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Unread postby highlander » Thu 26 May 2005, 14:28:12

New technology is great until you really do the math. How many cubic feet of biomass is needed to produce one barrel equivalent of oil.
I thought I'd produce my own methanol for biodiesel. Then I cranked the numbers and decided thirty acres of productive forest would not supply enough methanol for my personal biodiesel consumption. And I didn't even considering the energy needed to distill the methanol from the wood waste.
This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
Highlander 2007
User avatar
highlander
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 752
Joined: Sun 03 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Washington State
Top

Re: Peak Oil. RIP

Unread postby BiGG » Fri 27 May 2005, 07:26:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')
so hardly anything additional is needed except transporting the “waste” to the processing center.

Bigg, do you know what that "hardly anything" is? It's OIL you dillweed! That is the stuff we are running out of. How can you bring the stumps out of the forest without the OIL?


Yes, I am fully aware of what “hardly anything” is and so are the nonstop list of scientists that support me on this. How about we bring the “stumps” out with OIL made from the ………..wait just a second here ……….drum roll please ……………..the STUMPS and other sustainable forestry waste I already mentioned! How about we use those for the oil?

How about we use the multi billion gallon per year Ethanol production for fuel here also while car owners switch over to wind/nuclear powered electrics and other things like that? How about we switch most of the 100+ million homes over to geothermal heat supplemented by wind/nuclear powered electric saving all those trillions of gallons of natural gas & oil for highly efficient transportation?

The answers are right in front of you if you are willing to look and you should be asking yourself why you are not.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat in god's name do you imagine you know about "sustainable" forestry?


I know there’s millions & millions of acres of sustainable forestry that surround me and have been in production for many, many successful decades……….is that enough?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')et me guess. You are an agent of the Hudson Institute? Or is it Pacific Gas and Electric? You are a press agent for Pacific Lumber Company? You were Ronald Reagan's economist?


Ummm, do doomer glasses distort your vision to the point you cannot see the many links I provided clearly explaining sustainable forestry or are you have problems comprehending what all of those knowledgeable scientists are telling you?
"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
User avatar
BiGG
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Peak Oil. RIP

Unread postby Doly » Fri 27 May 2005, 07:34:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BiGG', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat in god's name do you imagine you know about "sustainable" forestry?


I know there’s millions & millions of acres of sustainable forestry that surround me and have been in production for many, many successful decades……….is that enough?


Not quite, BiGG. In my experience, the opinions of people who don't work on a certain field are very often wrong. I certainly don't go around offending people for thinking differently on subjects I don't know about firsthand from work or life experience.
User avatar
Doly
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Peak Oil. RIP

Unread postby Googolplex » Fri 27 May 2005, 08:27:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BiGG', 'Y')es, I am fully aware of what “hardly anything” is and so are the nonstop list of scientists that support me on this.


Wow! You have LISTS of scientists who have read your posts here and support YOU? You sure must be important! :shock:

:roll:
User avatar
Googolplex
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon 11 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Peak Oil. RIP

Unread postby BiGG » Fri 27 May 2005, 09:43:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '
')
Not quite, BiGG. In my experience, the opinions of people who don't work on a certain field are very often wrong. I certainly don't go around offending people for thinking differently on subjects I don't know about firsthand from work or life experience.


I’m with you here but I have linked many that do work in this field right here in this thread that support exactly what I am saying and its not like sustainable forestry is anything new anyway. Sustainable forestry has been around since before you were born no matter how old you are so I can’t imagine you even questioning this.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') certainly don't go around offending people for thinking differently on subjects I don't know about firsthand from work or life experience.


I don’t think you will find me doing that either unless others find it prudent to come after me first. Now if this is about the nonstop conspiracy theories and the like on these boards all the time, yes, I do jump on those sometimes but subjects like this I am more than nice to those who respond in kind.
"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
User avatar
BiGG
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Peak Oil. RIP

Unread postby BiGG » Fri 27 May 2005, 10:00:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Googolplex', '
')
Wow! You have LISTS of scientists who have read your posts here and support YOU? You sure must be important! :shock:

:roll:


WTF is with some of you people! Do you really have a need to lie, cheat, distort, pretend, or whatever wackiness it is you are doing? Did I ever say one word about having “LISTS of scientists” that have read my posts here”? No Sparky, I did not so don’t be getting yourself off by claiming I did as you walk away looking the fool, not me sweetheart! Hello!

Can you get yourself a clue and read the LINK I provided in the post you replied to and the many other links I have also provided in this thread alone regarding the scientists I am talking about? Hello? "STUMPS" Did you see that word & click on it in the post you replied to? Did you notice Dr. Darwin Foster is from Texas A&M University Cooperative Extension & the forestry program leader there?

See if you can find some other authorities on the links provided earlier in this thread and again listed below.

Use Forestry Waste, Cut Emissions

More Use of Organic Fuels Would Help United States

Organic Material Largest U.S. Source of Renewable Energy

Now for today’s lesson in this “doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out” …. How many knowledgeable scientists in those links provided agree with what I am saying just like I said?
"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
User avatar
BiGG
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Unread postby KevO » Fri 27 May 2005, 13:26:44

It just seems that every day there are more and more things coming that will 'see us thro'.
Mr BIGG seems convinced of his arguments and the links do back up what he is saying. Although I do think that he's agreeing with the scientists and not them he.
Mind you there are hundreds of scientits with amazing educations who maintain that global warming is either bollocks or cyclical and not nman made in anyway whatsoever.
hell - they may be right

meanwhile...............................................
the beat goes on


KevO
KevO
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2775
Joined: Tue 24 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: CT USA
Top
PreviousNext
Post a reply

Return to Energy Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest



cron