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American Jobs Act

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: American Jobs Act

Postby peeker01 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 15:46:14

Good job, Pup. Now take the time to email that letter to your Senators and Congressmen, and your
future President Rick Perry. Might just do us some good.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby Sixstrings » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 17:43:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'I')'m also thinking about some restrictions on the so-called "right to vote".. It is clear that the founding fathers could not foresee a nation full of people who were quite so stupid. i.e. if we can keep felons from voting, why can we cannot keep people on public assistance from voting themselves benefits out of the treasury?. Possibly an IQ test or some other means?, quite possibly restricting voters to people who pay property tax, i.e. landowners.


So basically you're a Jim Crow kind of guy. Landholding requirement to vote. Written tests to vote, which if history is prologue only colored folk will have to take the test while good ole' boy Jimbob won't.

These ideas have been tried before, Pup, they're not new.

I don't see your point anyway.. as if the rich aren't voting the Treasury into their hands? As if the rich don't have enough power in our politics? Ha!

(will have to read the rest of your post later, it's a long one)
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby gollum » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 17:52:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'I')'m also thinking about some restrictions on the so-called "right to vote".. It is clear that the founding fathers could not foresee a nation full of people who were quite so stupid. i.e. if we can keep felons from voting, why can we cannot keep people on public assistance from voting themselves benefits out of the treasury?. Possibly an IQ test or some other means?, quite possibly restricting voters to people who pay property tax, i.e. landowners.


So basically you're a Jim Crow kind of guy. Landholding requirement to vote. Written tests to vote, which if history is prologue only colored folk will have to take the test while good ole' boy Jimbob won't.

These ideas have been tried before, Pup, they're not new.

I don't see your point anyway.. as if the rich aren't voting the Treasury into their hands? As if the rich don't have enough power in our politics? Ha!

(will have to read the rest of your post later, it's a long one)



Six, I'm not sure I disagree about an IQ test I'd say the tea party will take as big a hit as anyone else.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby Loki » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 18:08:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'T')erm limits for the US House and Senate,

So you want to hand over even more power to lobbyists? And create even more political stalemate? Term limits are pointless. I'd rather see the end of the winner-take-all system. Proportional representation, instant run-off, whatever will undermine the power of the two-party system.

But I agree w/ campaign contribution limits, redefining personhood to mean actual people, etc.

As for people who are allegedly too stupid to vote, how about we limit the vote to white male property owners? Sound familiar? And what does property “ownership” mean in a society where the vast majority of property owners have a mortgage, often larger than the property is worth?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ince a lot of this problem is the unfunded social security system

Nonsense, not a single dime of the current deficit is due to SS. Not a dime. Any long-term problems with it can be solved by lifting the income cap. Or inflating the dollar :)

As for medical care, there are a lot of things we can do before kicking grandma out of the igloo, though I agree end of life care is a problem. I also agree w/ increasing the supply of medical professionals. We need more doctors and nurses, fewer video game designers and iPhone app developers.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e'll use the proceeds to explore for new internal sources of oil, train an energy workforce, provide a bank with which people can make energy investments, and develop new technologies, and rebuild our power grid to switch over to coal and natural gas, which we have in abundance for the time being.

Um, there's this little thing called global warming, you might have heard of it. Building more coal plants is a good way to cook the planet. Besides, our power grid is already largely coal and natural gas based. As for drilling for more oil, I suggest you Google “peak oil United States” and get back to me about how we can drill our way out of our dependence on foreign oil.

I think a simple carbon tax (a la Jim Hansen) is a much easier, more effective method of making the price of energy reflect its true costs than the overly complicated pricing scheme you're proposing. A hefty tariff on imported energy might also be appropriate. We could use these resources to vastly improve our conservation efforts, invest heavily in renewables, rebuild our rail infrastructure, R&D, etc.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e're declaring a 90-day phase out period for the FDIC.

To what end? The FDIC had little/nothing to do with the recent banking problems. We need to limit the power of big banks and investment firms, not force working people to stash their cash in their mattress.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')econdly, we're going to re-fix the US dollar to be worth a known amount of a known metal

We had a gold standard for most of our history, did nothing to stop depressions. Might limit inflation, I suppose. But maybe we need more inflation? Might help mitigate the consumer debt problem (see the Populists' Free Silver policy in the 1890s).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ffective immediately, we're going to have mandatory conscription of all 18 year olds, for two years, men and women.
Why? To instill civic virtue? I did a voluntary stint in the Army, it instilled in me a distrust of big government and a hatred for regimentation and arbitrary authority. But I'm not opposed to a citizen militia system similar to the Swiss. Certainly better than the standing army that we have now, and more in keeping with a Jeffersonian vision for America. Get rid of all but the bare bones of the full-time military and beef up the National Guard (but with a complete ban on overseas service).

I don't know man, I think a lot of your points are solutions in search of a problem, or the wrong solutions to real problems. But there are a few things in there I agree with.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby Loki » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 19:36:19

Finally got around to reading Obama's speech, have only heard some brief excerpts on the radio. Link to full-text of the speech.

Some thoughts:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Obama', '
')These men and women grew up with faith in an America where hard work and responsibility paid off. They believed in a country where everyone gets a fair shake and does their fair share – where if you stepped up, did your job, and were loyal to your company, that loyalty would be rewarded with a decent salary and good benefits; maybe a raise once in awhile. If you did the right thing, you could make it in America.
But for decades now, Americans have watched that compact erode. They have seen the deck too often stacked against them. And they know that Washington hasn't always put their interests first.


A valid point, I'm glad he mentions the social compact, though it's in the context of business and workers rather than government and citizens. But I really wish he'd openly call out corporate America and the ultrawealthy for their disloyalty to the nation. Instead he kinda sorta vaguely implies it. I'd prefer to see an FDR openly call out the economic royalists, no ifs ands or buts, no vague implications, just bring it to 'em, call their bullshit.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')veryone here knows that small businesses are where most new jobs begin. And you know that while corporate profits have come roaring back, smaller companies haven't. So for everyone who speaks so passionately about making life easier for "job creators," this plan is for you.

Nice. Veritable and biting. A good way to highlight the shameless hypocrisy of the GOPers.

He goes on to the “payroll tax cut,” i.e., underfunding Social Security and Medicare. Terrible idea. I could support a smaller SS/MC tax if he simultaneously lifted the income cap so that the rich pay the same tax as people who actually work for a living, and the SS/MC budgets aren't affected. But Obama tied his own hands on the “tax the rich” issue, immediately capitulating to the GOP. Now the conversation is about how to squeeze the current and future generations of middle/working class folks even more.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ass this jobs bill, and we can put people to work rebuilding America. Everyone here knows that we have badly decaying roads and bridges all over this country. Our highways are clogged with traffic. Our skies are the most congested in the world.

I'm down with infrastructure projects, generally speaking, though I suspect many of them will turn out to be unsustainable long term (do we really need more highways?). He at least mentions rail.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ass this jobs bill, and thousands of teachers in every state will go back to work. These are the men and women charged with preparing our children for a world where the competition has never been tougher. But while they're adding teachers in places like South Korea, we're laying them off in droves. It's unfair to our kids. It undermines their future and ours. And it has to stop. Pass this jobs bill, and put our teachers back in the classroom where they belong.

More teachers, or at least stemming the loss of teachers, and better schools. Sounds great. How's it gonna work?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ass this jobs bill, and companies will get a $4,000 tax credit if they hire anyone who has spent more than six months looking for a job. We have to do more to help the long-term unemployed in their search for work. This jobs plan builds on a program in Georgia that several Republican leaders have highlighted, where people who collect unemployment insurance participate in temporary work as a way to build their skills while they look for a permanent job. The plan also extends unemployment insurance for another year. If the millions of unemployed Americans stopped getting this insurance, and stopped using that money for basic necessities, it would be a devastating blow to this economy.
The Georgia model sounded like a good way for businesses to further socialize the costs of labor (a la Walmart employee food stamps). How about we end the export of our jobs via globalist trade agreements? How about we end mass immigration, at least until this current depression is over? These two measures would do FAR more to increase the number of jobs in the US, and would find widespread support among voters on all sides of the spectrum. But instead we get further subsidies for big business? And even MORE destructive free trade agreements? And we turn unemployment insurance into a straight-out welfare program? Not good.

I'm glad Obama made this speech, it's about fucking time. There are some concepts in there that I can support, lots of stuff I don't like. But one thing is nearly certain: that even this wishy washy, middle of the road, Republican-lite comprimised plan will be utterly rejected by the zealots that have taken over the GOP. Their mission is to stymie Obama, and if that means the rapid decline of the American middle class, so be it.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby Plantagenet » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 19:38:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', ' ')...not a single dime of the current deficit is due to SS. Not a dime.


You are wrong.

Last year all the social security taxes collected by the government were inadequate to cover the benefits paid out to social security recipients. The CBO estimated that the US had to borrow about 29 BILLION dollars to make up the shortfall in 2010. That 29 BILLION adds to the deficit.

CBO estimates social security added 29 BILLION to deficit in 2010---

This year the shortfall will be much worse. AND Obama's job speech included another cut to the SS tax for 2012 which will reduce the take for social security by hundreds of billions of dollars. Since SS is already in deficit, this means that If Obama gets his way social security payments will be adding hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit by 2012.

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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby pup55 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 19:39:46

Where was I:

First of all, I, your ruler occasionally make a typo, and if I do you are commanded to ignore it, as if I had no clothing on....

Oh, yeah, we still have some work to do.

Keep in mind that social security, medicare and the military are the three previously untouchable parts of the budget, and we have radically restructured them, we can now start on some fundamental changes to fix the productive economy so that it becomes an economic engine again.

6. Corporate Governance; Per the above rant the current system we have in corporate government is in failure mode. Here is how it works: The Baby Boomers have $15T in mutual funds, run by mutual fund managers. These guys control vast amounts of money and invest in large fractions of our largest corporations, and as such they occupy powerful positions on the boards of directors who choose the CEO's. The CEO's look around for ways to make the stock price higher, which favors both the fund and the CEO whose pay is based on that, and the first thing they do is fire as many baby boomers as possible, because that's where all of the overhead is. Does that make sense? What they should be doing is looking for new technology to do what they do, modernizing their plants, like the Germans and Japanese do, and look for new markets to sell their stuff..

So, the first thing we are going to do is restrict the ownership of US corporations to no more than 40% institutional investors, and other owners that will insulate the officers from the stakeholders. This will mean that shareholder uprisings will be common, bosses will be fired regularly, and they will be replaced by people that know the business with some known abiltiy to manage something.

Secondly, in order to do business in the US, we're going to have to require that companies like Toyota open up their company to international ownership , just like we do. Right now, as you know, there are restrictions against too big of a foreign ownership of some of these companies, and so we will either return the favor, as it applies to US-based companies, or insist that the home countries allow foreign control over their companies like we do ours. Seems only fair. What is happening now is, we're assembling the cars, but not designing them, and we're not seeing the profits. Those go to the head office in Japan. We have to get some reciprocation.

Thirdly, taking your corporate office over to Bermuda to avoid US taxes and regulations it is your choice but if you do it, you're going to have to pay double the US tax rate to do so. Same goes with moving jobs to China or elsewhere.

I think the above will pretty much fix the serious underlying problem, which is the mutual fund managers and officers looting the treasury of these companies instead of making them grow, but if it doesn't, we can always pass a law that limits the CEO and director pay of these outfits to some multiple of the lowest paid employee equal to that currently found in Germany, and those that do not comply are taxed to make up the difference.

A well-run company that works in the favor of its stockholders and employees and community stakeholders will not be affected by this in the slightest. Companies that are run to enrich the directors and managers will have some growing pains, but if you want some access to the US markets, you are going to have to allow us to play by the same rules as the rest of the world...

Rick Perry won't like it.

7. Taxes. Per the above the situation is a mess, any attempt in the recent past to fix it have only resulted in another doubling of the size of the tax code, and an entire industry has developed to avoid taxes and/or influence legislation for subsidies of one type or another.

it is clear we can no longer afford that nonsense. So, from now on we're taxing the top line, with the few exceptions noted above for irresponsible corporations who want to participate in our markets. No corporate incentives for anything.

We're going to take the GDP, figure out how much it takes to run the government, minus the changes we made above, and tax the top line by that amount. No accountants, no lawyers, no nothing. Same with individuals, except that we're going to institute a graduated system by which the more prosperous of us, who have benefited from the system thus far, will do their patriotic duty as good Americans and pay a little higher percentage, which they should be happy to do, since they were lucky enough to be able to reap the system's benefits.

We should not have a situation where Warren Buffet's secretary pays more in taxes than he does, and we are beyond the point of tweaking.

Sorry again, Rick.

8. Workforce Quality: Is it not clear that the US K-12 system is anachronistic, teaches kids the wrong lessons or no lessons, and basically amounts to a series of monuments to the good old boy football coaches that lose between 1/3 and 1/2 of the students? And, because of idiocy such as NCLB and so-called accountability there is enormous incentive to teach the test and cheat? And is it clear that the most predictive measurement of a school's quality is the zip code, that is, who the parents are?

Well, we have to pull the plug. In no other system in the country would we tolerate a 33 percent defect rate.

For the so-called college bound, let the system be kind of like it is, and I am not talking about the jocks here, I am talking about the top third of the class, who are probably going to succeed no matter what system. For the rest of the numbskulls, there are going to be plenty of ways to shunt them off into trades, work skills, and other activities that do not require the higher level of education.

I happen to think there is a vast untapped resource in the middle aged former corporate types, to the point if there was some way to weed out the discipline problems, and empower the teachers like they used to be, and letting these people be teachers, you'd end up with a much better system than today, which is full of squishy 22 year old grads who get pushed around. I can even envision a system where a teacher takes a handful of students, they pay him or her more or less directly, and over time, and he or she gets them through the system to the point where they get into college in some other means than graduation. There are plenty of options.

The parents are going to whine, because they assume that little johnny is college bound and he is just immature etc. but at some point in the day, they too have to be levelled with. Might this be discriminatory and possibly politically incorrect? Yeah, baby, but it is once again facing up to reality rather than tap dancing around the central question, which is, is it a right, or a priveledge, to be given an education.

9. Drugs. Turn the whole thing over to the Miller Brewing Company, which has a distribution network, in conjunction with the Monsanto company, which has all of the genetic engineering capabilities they need, and within a short period of time, the illegal drug trade would be controlled, regulated so that the kids do not get to that stuff, and taxed as a source of revenue for the treatment of abusers, and so cheap as to make it impractical to smuggle across the border.

The prisons are empty, the mexican drug war goes bankrupt, the police concentrate on enforcing the intoxicated driving laws for the brief time it takes to get it under control after we throw the book at the users, another idiotic chapter in American history is over.

10. Real Estate: You know, don't you, that this catastrophe is still in progress, prices are spiralling down because there are no buyers in the system, and no one, including the commercial real estate people, knows what anything is worth.

And, you know, don't you, that there will be no business formation, no investments, and no squat until the public confidence is restored in the value of the house they live in, if any.

And you know that a substantial portion of the US economy is completely paralyzed right now because of this deflationary spiral?

I am working on a "real estate holiday" plan, which is similar to FDR's bank holiday, by which the people that walked away from their mortgages get some kind of relief but are still expected to pay something back to the system, the people that were responsible but hurt in the meltdown get rewarded for their responsibility, the people that were really good and lived within their means and paid their place off have a chance to benefit by investing in some of the places down the block, and the people with money that want to should be able to take over some of the assets, with assistance from the government in finding tenants or moving in themselves, and the excess inventory when this is all over can be bulldozed and/or recycled.

The banks get the feces off of their books, the people with discipline are rewarded, the people that had to walk away get relief but are still expected to pay something back, and there is no excess inventory...

Oh, by the way, anybody who was determined to have sold a fradulent mortgage in the 2005-2008 time frame, anyone who bundled them and sold them as AAA and the officers of the ratings agencies themselves, can take the place of the drug users in all of those empty jail cells.

Once all of this is done, we start the "Energy Efficient Home" program. A government financed crew will come to your house, tear out all of your non energy efficient windows, appliances and everything else, and replace it with the energy efficient model. This crew will consist of former construction workers and supervisors, hired to be civilian contractors, that were formerly collecting unemployment.

11. Immigration: We have to clear this one thing up before we can work on the actual unemployment issue. Any illegal people still crazy enough to be in the country need to be asked to leave. No ifs, ands or buts. If you have an anchor baby, we might consider readmitting it when it is 18.

Anybody with an H1B visa, see you later. This includes all of the cousins, sisters, uncles and aunts that came in with you on your coat tails that are now running the nations nail salons. We cannot take care of our own.

Anybody with a green card that is now unemployed, see ya. We are not paying nationals of some foreign land money to be unemployed as long as there are US workers available to fill jobs.

p.s. I do not buy for one minute that 'Americans won't do those jobs" argument. After a couple of years in the pup55 boot camp, and some assurance that they will get a decent wage, we will become a hard working nation again that cleans up its own damn garbage, and pours its own concrete.

12. Public Assistance: The incentive system is all screwed up on this, and here is what I mean. In most systems in sane places, if there is a failure, the root cause of the failure is addressed. So the popping out of a baby by an underage mother is a failure, but in this nation, there are no negative incentives for having multiple of them, particularly since a lot of these people get ongoing assistance from the taxpayer. The root cause is not addressed.

So, here is the rule: If you have to get assistance from the government to take care of your child, you have to agree not to have any more kids, and to get some assurances of this, you will have to have some IUD or other device implanted in you to prevent this from happening until such time as you can support them. If you are a young gentleman who has fathered a number of these kids, the same thing applies to you.

Is this interference in reproductive rights? You bet it is. By becoming the parent of a kid that you cannot support, and getting assistance from the taxpayers to raise it, the taxpayers deserve the opportunity to eliminate the root cause of the problem, and "just say no" is not the answer, as Sarah Palin has amply demonstrated.

PS: Popping out a brat does not get you out of your 2-year hookup with the military. In fact, a special unit is created just for you and dad.

13. Now, we're ready to solve the problem: The unemployment issue. Anybody still left in the country not working after all of this, after the military thing, after the barefoot doctors and other infrastructure, after the training of some of these people to be teachers, the energy crew, and everything else, along with the exit of the foreign workers, we give additional training, with the focus on energy efficiency, relocalized small scale agriculture (no more 1200 mile salads) and other restructuring of society that will happen because of $8.50 gas, including the development and building of more fuel efficient vehicles, and making our communities more walkable.

We encourage business formation in these activities by supervised grants, an extension service, just like the old timey county extension service that used to help farmers but oriented toward business, and we move forward in that direction.

We pay unemployment compensation for as long as we need to. To incentivize these people, we encourage them to stay healty, stay off the cheap drugs, and toe the line crime-wise, using various carrots and sticks at our disposal.

There will be a renaissance in the country once the retooling is underway. Energy efficient vehicles (developed and built in the USA by US workers with the profits going to US stockholders, localized living, mass transportation, and a recycling renaissance, as we get rid of the old stuff, and all of this with a solid financial system and corporate system built to compete globally over the long run, with any economy on earth.

That gets us off to a good start.

Might have to tweak the system later.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby pup55 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 19:42:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o basically you're a Jim Crow kind of guy.


Nope. No race involved in this. No shortage of stupid white people.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby pup55 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 19:44:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't see your point anyway.. as if the rich aren't voting the Treasury into their hands? As if the rich don't have enough power in our politics? Ha!


The reason the rich are able to get away with it is because of the unholy Rovian alliance of the southern white "values voters", who will be convinced by saturation advertising, and the fatcats who provide it. Do away with the money in politics, and a lot of this goes away too.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby AgentR11 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 20:05:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'T')he reason the rich are able to get away with it is because of the unholy Rovian alliance of the southern white "values voters", who will be convinced by saturation advertising, and the fatcats who provide it. Do away with the money in politics, and a lot of this goes away too.


Did Clinton sign the 1994 Crime Bill, or did he not?
Are people being arrested for peace protests at abortion clinics, or not?

The values voters don't need advertising, or at least not much. Just a poke or two to remind them who votes their social positions, and who does not, is more than sufficient.

I can't help that you do not approve of placing social and religious values above economic ones; but each voter has the right to make that valuation for themselves.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby pup55 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 20:10:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he FDIC had little/nothing to do with the recent banking problem
s.

No, but it is an underfunded liability that needs to be gotten off of the books because it is considered part of the debt.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'u')t I'm not opposed to a citizen militia system similar to the Swiss.


This is more what I am thinking. Some way to get everyone away from mama and on the same page about civic responsibility.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')uilding more coal plants is a good way to cook the planet
.

Yeah, we might have to put the European GHG standards into place for the time being.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby pup55 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 20:11:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')id Clinton sign the 1994 Crime Bill, or did he not?


Clinton the Values Candidate? ROFL
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby AgentR11 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 20:14:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')id Clinton sign the 1994 Crime Bill, or did he not?

Clinton the Values Candidate? ROFL


A signature to approve the 1994 Crime Bill was a vote against the values voters, not for them. It had a bunch of infamous gun control garbage in it, and it cost a *LOT* of democrats their seats in the following election.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby PrestonSturges » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 20:15:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')id Clinton sign the 1994 Crime Bill, or did he not?

Clinton the Values Candidate? ROFL
Got his knob polished at work? High five, dude!
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby AgentR11 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 20:22:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'G')ot his knob polished at work? High five, dude!


He should have just owned up to it once he got busted. I never did see what the big deal was on the Lewinsky thing. The lawsuit / lie part was a bit more troubling, but I think he got some random lawyer type discipline that seemed suitable to the offense. Impeachment was just stupid.

One ought to save that sort of thing for serious charges like giving away positions of a military unit, or using mercenaries to rob fort knox or something.
Quibling in a civil lawsuit.... please.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby PrestonSturges » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 20:38:48

Today, Fox News said Rick Perry''s little rant about Social Security will knock him out of the running by the time of the Florida primary.

Like I said on another thread, the sociopath is always the one yelling about "saving" everyone from the evil conspiracy, which they only reveal when you catch them with grandmas checkbook. See? They are just protecting g'ma, and catching them with her money just proves how honest they are.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby MD » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 21:32:50

This entire thread has become too snipey to be of any interest. Half of you should go back and delete your posts.
It's starting to approach the level of a YouTube comment string.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby Cog » Sun 11 Sep 2011, 00:03:36

Since social security is a ponzi scheme, as has been pointed out many times, the sooner we come up with something better and more sustainable the better. Rick Perry will do just fine in the primaries regardless of the scare tactics used against him.
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby beamofthewave » Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:20:43

It is not a Ponzi scheme. The scheme is the constant welfare to the corporations and the banks and I am sick of it. The mooch class has got to go!
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Re: American Jobs Act

Postby Expatriot » Sun 11 Sep 2011, 12:30:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'S')o basically you're a Jim Crow kind of guy. Landholding requirement to vote. Written tests to vote, which if history is prologue only colored folk will have to take the test while good ole' boy Jimbob won't.

These ideas have been tried before, Pup, they're not new.


That doesn't make them wrong.

Clearly the current system is broken.

People in general are too God-damned selfish and stupid to be trusted with voting.

The one-person one-vote concept has a lot of emotional appeal. But it's failed. Time to try something else, even if it's a variation on something that's been done before.
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