Exactly evil. They try to manipulate supply to match demand, because you can only store so much
of the stuff. Nat Gas is even worse about storage issues, and that's why they have lost control of prices.
Funny, in my lifetime there's all ways an impending shortage, but when the market reaches their
price, oil flows like water.
And don't start with the "expensive/cheap oil stuff pops, because it has been going on for 40 years.
PeakOil is You
Crude Supplies "Tumble"
Re: Crude Supplies "Tumble"
by peeker01 » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 14:06:26
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Re: Crude Supplies "Tumble"
by peeker01 » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 14:17:11
As for you steamer, I will no longer carry on discussions with anyone as abusive and demeaning as
you. Try it on someone else. Beside, the market is about to show you how wrong you are.
you. Try it on someone else. Beside, the market is about to show you how wrong you are.
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Re: Crude Supplies "Tumble"
by Pops » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 14:52:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'N')ot according to the energy per capita chart you posted. Our energy per capita consumption went down.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'B')etween 1980 and 1991, fuel efficiency rapidly climbs. At the same time, overall fuel consumption drops. The exact opposite that Jevons paradox calls for.
You're narrowing down the time frame to make it fit your bias I think. But focusing on a time when oil prices averaged higher than at any time in the 20th century (before or after) and during the worst recession since the great depression doesn't really seem to make the best case for the techno-cavalry. We had no option but to park the boat, turn down the t-stat and bum a ride.
But to the overall consumption increase, I think it's pretty clear that between the 80's recession and the 2001 recession per capita consumption increased, doesn't your monitor show that? On both ends of that period of course we had high prices, recession, etcetera limiting consumers ability to pay, but while the oil price was at more normal prices historically our use increased even as efficiency increased (high MPG cars replaced low) - again, because we bought more high MPG cars and so drove more.
But bviously we aren't getting anywhere. I think you are saying technology could save us, I'm saying tech does allow us to buy more stuff and drive more miles and use up more of everything else but the only way we'll actually use less is if we can't use more.
Anyway, I quit, you're the winner.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Crude Supplies "Tumble"
by kublikhan » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 15:23:26
That's fine if you want to drop the whole thing Pops. Feel free to split this discussion off into the Energy Intensity thread.
The oil barrel is half-full.
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Re: Crude Supplies "Tumble"
by The Practician » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 16:04:12
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')
But bviously we aren't getting anywhere. I think you are saying technology could save us, I'm saying tech does allow us to buy more stuff and drive more miles and use up more of everything else but the only way we'll actually use less is if we can't use more.
Anyway, I quit, you're the winner.
')
But bviously we aren't getting anywhere. I think you are saying technology could save us, I'm saying tech does allow us to buy more stuff and drive more miles and use up more of everything else but the only way we'll actually use less is if we can't use more.
Anyway, I quit, you're the winner.
Funny, I was thinking earlier that maybe there needs to be a caveat added to jevons paradox that it only applies in an environment of expanding or stable(?) energy supply. It's not like Jevons paradox is a law of physics or something.
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