by Oakley » Wed 07 Sep 2011, 12:19:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('prajeshbhat', '
')
The question is, who is will to tell the government what to do and what not to do? Jesus?
In the USA the Constitution tells the federal government what to do and not do at the federal level, and each State has its own Constitution which does the same thing. Only problem is that there is a tendency for power hungry sociopaths to seek political power and for those who have concentrations of wealth to buy their favor. This is why every time people revolt against their oppressive government and institute freedom, eventually freedom is eroded and eventually we reach slavery, just like the history of the USA shows.
Ultimately the only effective restraint on government tyranny is revolt, and we are approaching that point, as the abuses progressively create increasing human suffering, of course amplified this time with the force of resource scarcity driven economic contraction. The revolution point is reached when the pain from continuing with the system of plunder and control noticeably exceeds any pain that could come from revolution; then nature takes her course.
I am glad I can continue to enlighten you.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence" Thomas H Huxley
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by Sixstrings » Wed 07 Sep 2011, 12:26:18
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '3')5 hours is a typical non-sense proposel from people who never operated a business and in general have no idea. Loss of productivity is significant.
You're wrong. They do it in France. Their productivity is actually higher, even though the work fewer hours. They also have more vacation time, and eat better food. Their TV however sucks.
Anyhow don't say something can't be done when it's being done right now in France. Have you never traveled?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]You want to make it CHEAPER to hire people, not more expensive.
Uhm, no we don't. That road leads to China.
by prajeshbhat » Wed 07 Sep 2011, 12:52:05
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', 'I')n the USA the Constitution tells the federal government what to do and not do at the federal level, and each State has its own Constitution which does the same thing. Only problem is that there is a tendency for power hungry sociopaths to seek political power and for those who have concentrations of wealth to buy their favor. This is why every time people revolt against their oppressive government and institute freedom, eventually freedom is eroded and eventually we reach slavery, just like the history of the USA shows.
This brings us back to my question. Let me rephrase it. Who will read the constitution to the government?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', 'U')ltimately the only effective restraint on government tyranny is revolt, and we are approaching that point, as the abuses progressively create increasing human suffering, of course amplified this time with the force of resource scarcity driven economic contraction. The revolution point is reached when the pain from continuing with the system of plunder and control noticeably exceeds any pain that could come from revolution; then nature takes her course.
You sound like a 5 year old whose candy was stolen by some big bully. So now you spend your days fantasising about some glorious revolution. American Revolution 2.0.
It's not coming dude. The way things are going , it seems like people in America will just blame the mexicans for all their problems. Soon they will elect some nutjobs who will pay lip service to the same BS. Most people will continue with their day to day business. The rest will indulge in violence. Not towards the government. But mostly towards the minorities and defenseless people. Nothing new there. Just a typical non progressive nation.
by Oakley » Wed 07 Sep 2011, 13:49:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('prajeshbhat', '
')
This brings us back to my question. Let me rephrase it. Who will read the constitution to the government?
The answer is nobody. To work effectively, the men who occupy the seats of power must honor the oath they take to uphold the Constitution; obviously most of the politicians lack moral fiber, and ignore the Constitution.
This is what John Adams, the Second President of the US had to say on this subject:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John Adams', '
')Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
While I don't think religion is a necessary precursor to morality, I think you get the idea.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('prajeshbhat', '
')You sound like a 5 year old whose candy was stolen by some big bully. So now you spend your days fantasising about some glorious revolution. American Revolution 2.0.
It's not coming dude. The way things are going , it seems like people in America will just blame the mexicans for all their problems. Soon they will elect some nutjobs who will pay lip service to the same BS. Most people will continue with their day to day business. The rest will indulge in violence. Not towards the government. But mostly towards the minorities and defenseless people. Nothing new there. Just a typical non progressive nation.
I suggest you read "The Fourth Turning" by William Strauss and Neil Howe for historical support for violent resolution of crisis periods similar to that which we are now enduring. The authors in 1997 predicted the current crisis period to begin about when it did, 2006-2007. Similar crises preceded the 1775 American Revolution, the 1861 Civil War, and WWII (1941). The regularity of these crisis periods followed by violent resolution is one of the phenomenon they reveal in their analysis of history, and the effect of generational attitudes. I am sure that the majority of people were taken by surprise when these periods of violence erupted; it is just human nature to expect tomorrow to be like today, especially when long term forces are at work, and the pressure slowly builds until there is a sudden perceptible event which even the most unaware notice.
You might also want to read "Civil War Two, The Coming Breakup of America", by Thomas W. Chittum, who addresses the ethnic divisions in the US and predicts civil war based on the changing ethnic demographics which will create the conditions that historically worldwide lead to race wars. He suggests that the Southwest will break away to become part of Mexico and the South will break away to become a new Black nation, leaving the Northwest, Midwest, and Northeast as a Caucasian enclave. Because there seems to be a taboo about discussion of racial division, some people discredit this book as racist; I think his analysis is credible and any racial motives he may have are overshadowed by the analysis itself.
To my mind the convergence of cyclical forces described in the Fourth Turning, the changing ethic demographics, and the massive economic contraction that energy scarcity will bring (is bringing) falls into the category of a perfect storm, and I can easily see civil war / revolution over the next decade or two. This is hardly a fantasy of mine.
by dsula » Wed 07 Sep 2011, 14:06:02
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KrellEnergySource', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '
')In the light of peakoil you can expect to have to work MUCH MUCH more to be able to feed yourself. Not less.
Why? The market will then value food higher due to the increased work required for production, which will create employment opportunities wherein those in the food industry will earn great wages. Just like 500 years ago.
Yay for 'the market'. Who needs government involvement or any collective planning for the future?
Brian
Not in a overpopulated world where you need to work every piece of marginal land, hunt every rat in town, pick every berry in the woods just to be able to survive.
by dsula » Wed 07 Sep 2011, 14:13:58
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '3')5 hours is a typical non-sense proposel from people who never operated a business and in general have no idea. Loss of productivity is significant.
You're wrong. They do it in France. Their productivity is actually higher, even though the work fewer hours.
Maybe the productivity per hour, but not the total output. I guess you can achieve the highest productivity if you work 10min/week. For those 10min you give it all.
They also have more vacation time,
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')and eat better food.
better quality? no it's the same generic industrial crap you get everywhere else. Better tasting? Ugh, french food. No thanks. You get good quality everywhere if you pay the price.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]You want to make it CHEAPER to hire people, not more expensive.
by Pops » Wed 07 Sep 2011, 14:37:00
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', 'W')ould a 35 hour work week create more jobs, or just share existing jobs between multiple people.
Who knows for sure.
My guess is working people create more demand for stuff than unemployed people so the greater the number of workers the greater the demand for stuff and more overall jobs. Besides, the new workers are adding to instead of a draining from the economy.
Either way society pays to keep those people from starving whether they are working or not - it's exactly like medical care, the sign at the emergency room says they can't turn anyone away so the ER room is used for treating an earache at $3k/hr at society's expense - instead of simply providing a $100/hr clinic.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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