I've had enough of you Kub. Go cut and paste another long-winded diatribe with someone else.
I'm not interested.
PeakOil is You
Crisis of capitalism
Re: Crisis of capitalism
by peeker01 » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 20:09:53
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Re: Crisis of capitalism
by americandream » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 20:19:21
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'A')D......Do you really talk that way at home, or is it just something you do for our benefit?
Let me try and simplify it for you then. Those who profit from global networking outnumber those (in terms of power and influence) who profit from SME's and local mercantilism. Why?
Applying your simple logic. Survival of the fittest. They have risen up from the ranks of the SME's and merchants to now bestride a global business that WILL CONTINUE to grow. Libya stands testimony to the relentless expansion of the process of accumulation at the international level. Iraq, Libya, Sudan...all recently transformed and all at the heart of the black goo that powers the capitalist machine. So whilst you argue yourself blue in the face over your anxieties as conservative middle America, my point is.....WHY?
All you defend with such passionate conviction MUST come to pass. There's no going back. And were capitalism to suddenly collapse tomorrow for the peaking of resourcing (which I do not think it will despite all the hullabaloo), there will nevertheless be no going back. That is not humanity's record. History is littered with the bones of those who tried to reinvent the wheel but our programming is such that we adapt and create as we go along.
So my simple suggestion is this. Chill dude and take a leaf from my book. Make the most of your short life. I am. After all. How many Marxists do you know who have succeeded in the brute world of the markets....leaving aside the many conservative casualties. So calm down. These tax cuts and the minimalised state are on the cards...as are all the items pushed by the multinationals (free flowing capital) backed conservative parties all over the world.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism
by americandream » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 20:33:58
In a nutshell, there are two sub-classes of those who profiteer from the investment of passive value (passively as well as actively )in the contemporary economy:
1 The capitalist. High net worth individuals (passive earning exceeds active earning by a measure of at least 4:1.........and with the capacity to maintain a high lifestyle with their passive earning in any socio-economic scenario including a deep depression).
2 The merchant class. Those who are almost entirely dependant on an actively earned income with little or no passively accumulated capacity, who share the values held by number 1, who aspire to be like number 1 in many cases, but who, UNLIKE number 1, have little or no capacity to weather any socio-economic scenario, ESPECIALLY a deep depression. Are almost always funded by debt based liquidity.
1 The capitalist. High net worth individuals (passive earning exceeds active earning by a measure of at least 4:1.........and with the capacity to maintain a high lifestyle with their passive earning in any socio-economic scenario including a deep depression).
2 The merchant class. Those who are almost entirely dependant on an actively earned income with little or no passively accumulated capacity, who share the values held by number 1, who aspire to be like number 1 in many cases, but who, UNLIKE number 1, have little or no capacity to weather any socio-economic scenario, ESPECIALLY a deep depression. Are almost always funded by debt based liquidity.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism
by prajeshbhat » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 22:15:28
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')One question. Do such well educated people have ANY responsibility for themselves, if they had many years to accumulate wealth due to their good jobs, made possible by their good educations? ...
For the life of me, I can't see that as being reasonable -- especially when the businesses are the financial lifeblood of the economy (even after all the government distortion and extortion of their profits).
')One question. Do such well educated people have ANY responsibility for themselves, if they had many years to accumulate wealth due to their good jobs, made possible by their good educations? ...
For the life of me, I can't see that as being reasonable -- especially when the businesses are the financial lifeblood of the economy (even after all the government distortion and extortion of their profits).
My response was to the someone calling the american system the most opportune system ever built. I was trying to make the point that it is not so opportune any more. The businesses no longer care about the people, who are the organs of the economy.
The point is this. People with masters degrees and 20+ yrs of experience could lose their jobs. Not because of their incompetence, they were competent enough to last 20 years. They lose their job because their business decides to get their work done by a chinese who will do it for a quarter of the cost.
So I will not pass judgements on whether the businesses should be held accountable for this. All I am saying is that unless the chinese decide to raise their wages to western levels(don't count on it), you can be sure of what the ultimate destination of american workers is. Sub-Chinese wages and underemployment....(for those who are lucky enough to be employed).
Last edited by prajeshbhat on Sat 27 Aug 2011, 22:40:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism
by Pretorian » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 22:37:48
I haven't said anything about capitalism in that post , so what are you talking about. Another "liberal" tried to pass Kilwa as an example of a Negroid achievement, only to discover that the only Negroid involvement there was in killing and eating the entire population of the city, mostly women and children.
As for capitalism Africa is already more capitalistic than USA, considering their business practices and laws.
By the way, is that link to "das Kapital" has the best English translation available? I'd hate to read it in German.
As for capitalism Africa is already more capitalistic than USA, considering their business practices and laws.
By the way, is that link to "das Kapital" has the best English translation available? I'd hate to read it in German.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism
by americandream » Sun 28 Aug 2011, 00:40:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I') haven't said anything about capitalism in that post , so what are you talking about. ...As for capitalism Africa is already more capitalistic than USA, considering their business practices and laws.
By the way, is that link to "das Kapital" has the best English translation available? I'd hate to read it in German.
By the way, is that link to "das Kapital" has the best English translation available? I'd hate to read it in German.
I shall try for the last time to clarify my explanations. Obviously if you still persist in your simplistic responses, we shall have to leave it there.
Systems have natural points of inflection which are subject to material forces playing out over long periods of time. They are all very different as well although many share a basic theme, personal gain by one form or another. However, contemporary capital has very distinctive characteristics which distinguishes it from feudalism and other systems as well as its own earlier sub-stages.
Capitalism's sub-stages are rudimentary and parochial forms of profit with a smaller emphasis on accumulation as their ethos was less on the magnification of labour surpluses by the use of elaborate mechanisms but rather the generating of surplus by exchange.
Therefore, those who express a preference for a throwback in contemporary globalising realities are invariably caught up in a paradox that suggests that they are unable to adapt to/understand the new realities. As Marx says in Manifesto:
The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionising the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society. Conservation of the old modes of production in unaltered form, was, on the contrary, the first condition of existence for all earlier industrial classes. Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.
They therefore sink into a mix of artifices to make sense of their impotent bewilderment, invariably a mix of nationalist rhetoric and barbaric parochialism which at once assuages that powerlessness yet comforts the alienation generated. In these times, we see a flourishing of these mechanisms.....all manner of irrational outlooks ranging from religion to bizarre forms of social tribalism.
Therefore, whether Africa is this or that is irrelevant in examining the realiteis that face us. Commodification will ensure that the most primitive of spear thrower ultimately falls before the citadel of consumerism so these issues, whilst academically or culturally of interest to some, is a reality that will challenge us all and ultimately bring about changes no one can visualise at present and at best, guess at.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism
by Cid_Yama » Sun 28 Aug 2011, 01:55:08
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'B')y the way, is that link to "das Kapital" has the best English translation available? I'd hate to read it in German.
Obviously your first language is German, so what's the problem?
Heck, you've been going all Neo-Nazi on us since you've been here.
Wait, are you Geert Wilders? He's the reincarnation of Hitler. I remember you defending his position.
That would make Dutch your first language. Well, German your first language in your previous life. Excuse me.
If I were you I would be offended by being called 'Mussolini of the Low Countries'.
Clearly you deserve the title of Führer.
link
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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LMAO at some of the idiotic posts.
