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Crisis of capitalism

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby prajeshbhat » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 12:09:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'I')'m sick to death of this left wing, PC, academic claptrap BS about civilizations. Any schoolboy
can see that there is a difference among peoples, until of course his powers of reasoning
are destroyed by the American educational system.


The left wing doesn't deny that there is a difference among people. It's just when someone starts saying a certain race is superior to all others.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy is Mexico such a backwards $hithole? They had horses,
donkeys, dogs........why does most of Mexico look like the 1700's in any other country?


Just FYI, there were no horses in north america. They were brought from Europe. But take a look at history and find out what the early European settlers did to the native population of north and south america. There were great civilizations in these parts of the world before they were colonized.
Now explain to me why the worlds richest man is a Mexican and not an american?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy doesn't Russia succeed like Japan? Why
aren't I driving a Russian or Mexican car instead of a Honda. Why do Serbians insist on murdering
their neighbors like ants?


If I remember well, Russia was a superpower. And Americans went through sleepless nights because of the fear of USSR. And murdering people is not just for the serbians. That's basically what Europeans(and their american descendants) have been doing all over the world for the past 400 years.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is no crisis of capitalism, just a wide gulf of personal motivation and intelligence. Poor,
stupid people should pick green beans for their welfare check, or go back to school like we all did and succeed in the most opportune economic system ever invented by man.


Again. Generalisation. If you have a job just be thankful for it (And don't be surprised if it is outsourced to china next week). Joseph Stalin would have been interested in your idea of forcing people to pick beans in return of welfare checks, but those days are gone.
There are people with masters degrees and several years of experience who are unemployed. You could very easily end up among them.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby peeker01 » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 12:28:57

OOPS! You forgot to tell me why Mexico and the Philippines are so backwards. Not enough
foreign aid I suppose. No, European intervention......OOPS, that's not it........
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby gollum » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 12:34:07

I really do think if we are going to have welfare it should be accompanied by some sort of meaningful participation in a public works project, but when republicans bring it up there is usually an undertone of meanness and degradation which I don't care for.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby AgentR11 » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 13:01:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') really do think if we are going to have welfare it should be accompanied by some sort of meaningful participation in a public works project, but when republicans bring it up there is usually an undertone of meanness and degradation which I don't care for.


Because a certain subset of them are Republican as a result of having something that they held important, stomped on by the left. I was going to list a bunch of examples, philosophical, social and financial issues, but it'll derail in the responses. This tends to make them angry and looking for payback, even if they don't want to feel that way, I think it tinges what they write, as well as how they perceive what they read.

Some may even have issues that align with the left, but are made to feel very unwelcome because of other positions held which contradict the core left platform, ie, from a neutral point of view, one might reasonably conclude that I'm an environmentalist, but I would never suggest a solution that a left wing person would think "fair" to the poor. I'd suggest a carbon tax, but unlike Hansen who wants to redistribute the proceeds to benefit those who use little (aka, the poor), I'd use the proceeds to repeal estate and capital gains taxes. I'd suggest much greater restriction on coal fired generation, but I'd say the tax payers get to pay for the scrubbers. I'd suggest enhancements to Wilderness areas (continuity, road removal, etc), but the government should pay owners and effected parties generously from tax revenues for their encroachments, as well as pulling in monument lands into the NFS wilderness system, and improving motorless access and services for hunters. So, hanging out on a Global Warming site, I'd get quite angry, since most are there to further their political agenda, and GW just happens to be a convenient vehicle to do so; I don't like getting angry, so I avoid those forums. PO being more neutral politically, or at least diverse, makes it a less hostile place to engage in conversation.

Just an example of how the hostility can build. I'm sure there are similar feelings and situations on the opposite side of the isle as well.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby efarmer » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 13:52:13

The end game of capitalism is when growth is not longer possible due to resource limits.
In the case of America, the great financial top of the food chain predators in New York
bought and teamed with the political Cat-Dogs of Washington and set up a big set of snapping
jaws to eat all the little fish. Then they used their positions of control and authority to create
virtual little fish and they ate all of those too by backing up their virtual fish with people's
retirement and investment funds.

The big zoot suit piranha of New York need a new ocean chock full of little fish to eat
but there isn't one available.

I can't wait for them to start biting tails and fins and chunks of blubber off of each other.

In the end their will be one big and corpulent slug on Wall or Broad street and he will
roll out into the sun, expand, and pop like a big pimple.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby Slorisb » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 14:05:10

Efarmer - are you talking about Jaba the Hut?
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby The Practician » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 14:34:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') really do think if we are going to have welfare it should be accompanied by some sort of meaningful participation in a public works project, but when republicans bring it up there is usually an undertone of meanness and degradation which I don't care for.



Well... There would have to be a certain ammount of meanness and degradation to it, otherwise it would just be pure, unadulterated socialism, and they can't be going around promoting that, can they?
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby ubercrap » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 15:51:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', ' ')


...it's always meaningless drivel like "tax the jet owners more" as though there is enough wealth from such people to pay for the endless set of programs that Cid-types want.

Yeah. We can see how well THAT is working out via Obamanonics.

So go ahead. Blame it on Reagan. That will fix it. :lol:


I'm not sure what you are asserting here. Are you are implying we already tried increasing taxes on the wealthy under Obama and it already failed to the point that we could give a name to this failure?
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby dissident » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 16:14:04

Population of Africa: 1.022 billion
Area of Africa: 30.2 million km^2

Population of Europe+USA+Canada: 0.731+0.307+0.034 billion = 1.072 billion
Area of above: 10.2+9.8+10=30 million km^2

Obviously the birth rate is not the causal factor in the economic state of Africa. Africa has
plenty of resources and no permafrost zones so its carrying capacity is higher. The size
of the African population (implicitly alluded to by the birth rate) is simply a non-issue.

On the other hand the centuries of colonial meddling are one of the main factors in its
current economic and political state.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby peeker01 » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 16:19:12

BS
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby americandream » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 16:22:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'A')nd what Negroids ever got to do with ports of Mogadishu and Malindi and Kilwa? All of those ports were founded and run by arab/persian/indian merchants.


Irrespective of who did what to whom over the long history of human interaction (subject to much debate given the circumstances and interests involved), the Zimbabwe and South Africa lesson to be learnt is that Africa WILL be integrated into global capitalism, despite the reservations of parochial mercantilists such as yourself. The existence of the capacity now available within that continent guarantees its eventual and full integration to the service of global accumulation. Most likely via the Irish route which was marked by long periods of stagnation following a lengthy colonisation and eventual independence, but an eventual fast tracking into the emerging megalith, the EU. Ireland was a ripe cherry waiting for the picking, considering her vastly undervalued infrastructure right on the edge of a vastly overvalued European heartland, way back in the "80's.

The emerging globalism of course perturbs those of us who still yearn for the narrow certainties of the barbaric ages of yore but alas, that wish cannot be granted for the forces of this economic wave have yet to reach their far shore. And when that does happen, you will be long gone and the world a vastly changed place from the one that we (this generation, our kids and our predecessors) grew and died in.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby peeker01 » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 16:31:39

AD......Do you really talk that way at home, or is it just something you do for our benefit?
Last edited by peeker01 on Sat 27 Aug 2011, 16:59:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby Cog » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 16:34:19

Mostly cut and paste from elsewhere.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 16:52:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('prajeshbhat', 'T')here are people with masters degrees and several years of experience who are unemployed. You could very easily end up among them.

One question. Do such well educated people have ANY responsibility for themselves, if they had many years to accumulate wealth due to their good jobs, made possible by their good educations?

For example, when some 20-something has their job exported to China and can't quickly find a replacement job in this economy -- I feel bad for them. I don't mind them getting unemployment checks, food stamps, etc. for awhile until they get back on their feet.

Now -- 40-somethings, with 20 or more good job-years. How about that?

If you say no -- then how about SIXTY-somethings with FORTY or more good job-years? (One would think SIXTY-somethings should at least be considering retirement, for example).

It seems that the left NEVER expects any responsibility out of individuals or governmental agencies or politicians. Yet they expect seemingly INFINITE foresight and responsibility out of business owners and corporations.

For the life of me, I can't see that as being reasonable -- especially when the businesses are the financial lifeblood of the economy (even after all the government distortion and extortion of their profits).
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby Loki » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 16:59:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', 'T')he end game of capitalism is when growth is not longer possible due to resource limits.

I thought of this thread when I read Kunstler's latest blog post:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kunstler', 'W')e're in permanent contraction now. There are no technological rescue remedies that will restore the old economic regime. The banks are not working anymore because we can't create more real wealth, and the wealth we pretended to create for thirty-odd years in the form of IOUs can't be paid back into existence. We can't fund any more senior golfing careers and a lot of people will have to just stop eating fried pork rinds, guzzling Pepsi Cola, and then waddling into the emergency room for consolation.
Does this sound a little harsh? Surprise: history is not your therapist. This is the New Age you never expected. Crybabies need not apply.

http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/histor ... apist.html
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 17:00:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'B')S

So this is the best you can do in response to Dissident's thoughtful post?

Third grade response level. How impressive.

It seems to me that reasonable people could certainly disagree and debate on the merits of Dissident's thoughts. Climate, quality and diversity of resources, cultural norms and values, and just plain luck -- are all ideas for topics that spring to mind. (Any such arguments should be developed as coherent ideas of course -- I'm NOT doing that, just citing possible examples).

But "BS"? That's it? You write interesting posts at times. You, IMO, demean yourself with such posts.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby peeker01 » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 17:03:13

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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby vision-master » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 17:13:18

YAPMF (Yet Another Planetary Mind F##k from those who claim they own your a**...)
Yet another planetary mind f##k (YAPMF) is coming. As with all the previous planetary mind f##ks before it, the criminals at the top of this insanity pyramid think it will aid in saving their ass. They think of it as 'remaining in control', but basically, these days, everything these criminal families do is to 'save their asses'.

This YAPMF will fail The good news is that a whole new world and universe awaits all of us who make it through the next few years of solar system changes, and the increasingly desperate, ass-clown antics of the entrenched powers. The bad news is that not all the good people will make it through. But enough will see the YAPMF for what it is to escape this current level of slavery, and success breed success, as universe allows.


Comments......
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 17:17:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercrap', 'I')'m not sure what you are asserting here. Are you are implying we already tried increasing taxes on the wealthy under Obama and it already failed to the point that we could give a name to this failure?

A fair question.
1). No, I am asserting that constantly carping about successful businesses (and owners) because they are successful -- is highly counterproductive. It hurts confidence, which hurts the economy.

2). I am asserting that it is intellectually dishonest to plan (via the information we get from the Obama administration and Democratic proposals) to raise the taxes of everyone making roughly more than $200,000 -- but constantly use "corporate jet owners" in speeches, to deflect, and ACT like they only want to tax the "super rich".

3). I am asserting that even if item 2 were false, that there are not NEARLY enough of the super-rich to tax to solve anything like the $1.5ish trillion (the figures keep changing) deficits under the Obama administration.

4). I am asserting that even IF enough taxes were raised to solve the problem -- that it would NOT, as BOTH the left and right would find all sorts of "critical" new things to spend the increased tax money on. (Net, just making the economy sicker). Ayn Rand documented what such a strategy could eventually lead to in "Atlas Shrugged" 54 years ago. Of course, the left just mocks that instead of learning any lessons.

...

To be clear, I think we need to fix things with a balanced approach. I think EVERY SINGLE person needs to give something up. I want more taxes on EVERYONE and less spending FOR everyone. I want it proportional so we ALL "suffer" some, but end up on a financially stable path. I think the vehicle would be some sort of iron clad Graham-Rudmann style discipline.

To be realistic -- I don't think it will EVER happen. The various interest groups are too conflicted and won't compromise. I think we will go over the financial cliff together, arguing about it as we fall.

I am merely pointing out that the path we're on is disastrous, and the political rhetoric we are getting from Obama is making it worse (IMO).

And, sad to say, I believed in this guy, and I enthusiastically voted for him.

I hope that clears things up a bit.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Crisis of capitalism

Postby kublikhan » Sat 27 Aug 2011, 19:47:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'B')S
dissident, americandream, prajeshbhat, all post valid, well thought out posts and this is the best you could muster? Outcast_Searcher was right, you are posting at the third grade level.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'P')S. So you disagree that it would be easier to feed 5 kids vs 6.35 , 3 vs 5, 1vs 3 and so on. I rest my case here.
Umm, no. Did you even read my post on demographic transition? Europe, USA, etc. all went through the same transition. From high birth-high death, to high birth-low death, to low birth-low death. Yes, even the developed countries once had high birth rates. Most developed countries started the transition way back in the 18th century. Developing countries began the transition much later.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'Y')ou heard that? DEVOURED. That's about as much of an input to human civilization as any Negroid tribe can do.
OK, this discussion has slid pretty far from capitalism and into racism. I do not wish to continue down this path.
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