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jail for a frontyard garden ?

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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sun 10 Jul 2011, 22:25:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'T')hat is a nice looking garden, especially for her first year.
It is time to become a libertarian if you value any freedom at all. Why do I say that, because it is equally likely that it is a democratic or a republican administration in the town that is responsible for the charges. You just can't trust either party.
Peace

Well it sounds good in principle, but as I was saying in the other thread I have not been able to identify any viable intellectual, economic, philosophical, or political basis for libertarianism. As far back as I have been able to research, it has been a rubbish bin full of crackpots theories. And it has always been the refuge of people who are trying to repackage feudlism or the plantation system, which makes it the favorite of senile aristocrats.
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby Pretorian » Mon 11 Jul 2011, 15:08:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'T')hat is a nice looking garden, especially for her first year.
It is time to become a libertarian if you value any freedom at all. Why do I say that, because it is equally likely that it is a democratic or a republican administration in the town that is responsible for the charges. You just can't trust either party.
Peace

Well it sounds good in principle, but as I was saying in the other thread I have not been able to identify any viable intellectual, economic, philosophical, or political basis for libertarianism. As far back as I have been able to research, it has been a rubbish bin full of crackpots theories.


Have you found any intellectual, economic , philosophical or political basis for communism?
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby TreeFarmer » Mon 11 Jul 2011, 16:35:48

Couldn't you start with the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? As a human being you have inalienable rights that you don't get from any government or any other individual or group of individuals.

Your inalienable right to life is all the justification you need to grow your own food. When someone tries to tell you that you can't grow your own food they are trying to take your right to life away. If someone tries to destroy her garden she is justified in shooting them.

How is that for an intellectual and philosophical justification for Libertarianism?
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby DrGray » Mon 11 Jul 2011, 16:41:01

This has nothing to do with democrat vs. republican, or the size of the government. I've run into very similar issues in a fully republican entrenched county/city. It doesn't matter how small the government is, if the laws and codes are bulls*#t, they are bulls*#t. This story has the stench of crap all over it. F the party lines on this one. Society has failed here.
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby DrGray » Mon 11 Jul 2011, 17:02:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')But it's still the Republicans. Republicans are Christian do-gooding busybodies. Always trying to get into your bedroom or garden.


True that!
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby TreeFarmer » Mon 11 Jul 2011, 17:23:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DrGray', 'T')his has nothing to do with democrat vs. republican, or the size of the government. I've run into very similar issues in a fully republican entrenched county/city. It doesn't matter how small the government is, if the laws and codes are bulls*#t, they are bulls*#t. This story has the stench of crap all over it. F the party lines on this one. Society has failed here.


This is true, BS is BS no matter how it is packaged.

The "do gooders" are all over both parties is the problem. One party wants to tell you who you can marry, the other party wants to tell you that they know best how to allocate the results of your work. Remember the Connecticut (?) eminent domain case that went all the way to the US Supreme Court where the land owners finally lost? It was the D side of the supreme court that was the majority on that one. The R's put in the Patriot Act. You just can't trust either party to respect the individual and individual rights.
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby DrGray » Mon 11 Jul 2011, 17:36:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', ' ')You just can't trust either party to respect the individual and individual rights.


Yes. I'm just glad it seems that more and more people are waking up to this fact. I think a lot of people are growing tired of the two party BS. I credit it to Obama. The Bush admin was so bad that the populace put so much HOPE and expectation on the Obama admin. To Obama's credit, he could never live up to what the populace was expecting, which was real CHANGE. Now that he has disappointed them, they are left with a bad taste for both parties. Unfortunately, this has resulted in a horrible, doomed experiment called the Tea Party. But that aside, I think it's good that there is more open contempt for both parties.

That is way more political discussion than I usually allow myself to utter. I hate politics. Don't know what came over me.
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby ki11ercane » Mon 11 Jul 2011, 20:37:00

I think if the city is going to start splitting hairs, she should use his term "entire" against them. Because in this picture, the "entire" front yard is not being consumed by her garden.

Further, SFG's, by plural, are not "a" garden, but several self contained ones. Again, if the city is going to play those kind of silly games, best to play the same game.

Or just build a 4' fence and get an artist to paint OAK PARK, GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY with a garden collage in the background.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'H')ere's a pic of the garden:

http://assets.theagitator.com/wp-content/uploads/CM-Capture-21.png

It looks nice, better than grass assuming things are maintained. The city people are idiots, listen to how they define "suitable:"

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')owever, Oak Park’s Planning and Technology Director Kevin Rulkowski says the city disagrees. He says, “If you look at the dictionary, suitable means common. You can look all throughout the city and you’ll never find another vegetable garden that consumes the entire front yard.”
http://www.theagitator.com/2011/07/07/does-michelle-obama-know-about-this/


So it's illegal because the dictionary says so! :lol: This overpaid city planner cucumber cop actually pulled out a dictionary on this one. Sigh.. well I guess if other people started planting veggies then the definition of "suitable" changes and they can let this woman out of jail.

(I guess what he's saying is that the law is all about conformity.. you can't have more veggies than your neighbor does)
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Wed 20 Jul 2011, 14:27:32

Update:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')harges dropped against woman who grew organic garden, but new charges filed

A Detroit woman who was facing jail time for growing an organic garden in her home's front yard is no longer in legal jeopardy on that charge, her attorney said this week -- but she's now facing charges on a new "crime": not having proper licenses for her two dogs.

"This is really nothing other than a personal vendetta against the Basses either because somebody doesn't like them, or because they had the nerve to fight this unjust prosecution," Solomon Radner, an attorney for Detroit resident Julie Bass, told reporters Thursday.


Petty little jerks.
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby Pretorian » Thu 21 Jul 2011, 20:26:34

You guys should think where this idiocy comes out from in the first place.. Do you think cities just make up s*** like that? No, it comes from the "concerned citizens". You know, those that "think of the community".
I for example was ( or am ) getting nasty anonymous letters because my grass is mowed at the highest setting (personal preference). One guy though came over and told me that there is a "talk in the neighborhood" that my high grass ( which goes from 5 or so inches to wherever it can get in a week ) is affecting their " home values" . Yet nobody is selling anything. I don't have any stinking HOAs and everything within a city code.. But, previous ( broke) owner was spending an untold fortune on landscaping yearly, something completely out of the wack , and they can't get over the fact that is just not going to happen anymore.
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Fri 22 Jul 2011, 15:49:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'Y')ou guys should think where this idiocy comes out from in the first place.. Do you think cities just make up s*** like that? No, it comes from the "concerned citizens". ... I don't have any stinking HOAs and everything within a city code.. But, previous ( broke) owner was spending an untold fortune on landscaping yearly, something completely out of the wack , and they can't get over the fact that is just not going to happen anymore.

Jumping-Jesus-On-A-Pogostick! We actually agree on something! :!: 8O
You hit the nail right on the head. Too many busybodies getting involved in other people's business and trying to enforce conformity on their neighbors. Pretty sad for a country of "rugged individuals."
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby mattduke » Fri 22 Jul 2011, 20:06:37

Clearly what needs to happen now is that the law must be revised to ensure that property rights are respected from now on. As is the invalid law remains on the books to be enforced at the whim of the next bureaucrat.
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby Expatriot » Fri 22 Jul 2011, 20:57:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'I')t is time to become a libertarian if you value any freedom at all.

Well it sounds good in principle, but . . . . it has always been the refuge of people who are trying to repackage feudlism or the plantation system, which makes it the favorite of senile aristocrats.


This argument fails before it even gets legs.

Most obviously, rich people are almost unanimously not libertarian.

Next obviously, everybody I know who is a libertarian is not wealthy.

Finally, libertarians generally are unified by the concept that government should be kept as small as possible. Virtually every other theory of government differs from libertarianism in that they squabble about how it is the government should be controlling the people through laws.

You, quite obviously, and quite simply, just don't like the concept of limited government.

But rather than simply say, "I don't like libertarianism because, from my perspective, it is the proper role of government to pass laws to accomplish the following . . . " and then fill in your brand of that side of the spectrum, you go on about you don't quite understand it.

Here it is, simplified for you. Keep government as small as possible and taxes as low as possible. Have as few laws as possible to keep order. Let people do what they want without hurting others, and hold them responsible for the results. Pretty simple, really, and probably a lot better defined that amorphous concepts like Fascism and Liberalism, which know no bounds.

Republican war mongering, liberal welfaring, whatever.

I've noted over the years that the right wingers and left wingers and the rich and the poor all hate libertarianism equivalently.
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby Expatriot » Fri 22 Jul 2011, 21:08:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', ' ')One guy though came over and told me that there is a "talk in the neighborhood" that my high grass ( which goes from 5 or so inches to wherever it can get in a week ) is affecting their " home values" .


These are the kind of people who would lead me to become the neighborhood pariah. I'd research the laws, and then I'd start doing everything possible to make my front yard an eyesore.

Fun Fun.
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Re: jail for a frontyard garden ?

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Fri 22 Jul 2011, 21:21:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'C')learly what needs to happen now is that the law must be revised to ensure that property rights are respected from now on. As is the invalid law remains on the books to be enforced at the whim of the next bureaucrat.

Hey, I've been saying for years that unenforced laws should be stricken from the books. Back in the late 1990s, Giuliani resurrected a "cabaret" law from the 1920s to shut down dance and performance clubs.
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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