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Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depression

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 28 May 2011, 19:53:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bratticus', '
')The interest from a measly 1.79% on a 5 year US Treasury bond is effectively a negative yield.

You would need maybe 3% interest to keep up.

I suspect that an honest market "basket" of real world consumer goods would take a hell of a lot more than 3% to keep up.

I see my health insurance (you know, the thing that Obamacare is magically fixing) just went up about 25% over last year. (Each year I hit about 10% of my deductible, and they pay perhaps $100 toward drugs in a bad year, so it's NOT because I'm an expensive customer).

Most people eat and consume energy. Those things are also going up more like 25%.

Since I believe the politicians will use QE3.... QE(N) rather than face the pain of widespread deflation and its consequences -- precious metals and oil look better and better as long term ways to hedge where the dollar HAS to be going as a consequence.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sat 28 May 2011, 22:13:53

I will bet that so long as the powers that be can supply food and energy to the population at large; that they can extend 'money games' essentially forever.

If, (when), the powers that be can't supply cheap food and energy to the population at large- that's when we get revolution. Until then its business as usual.

Right now they seem to be achieving a balance between massive deflation, VS massive inflation, and they are content to keep us in this state indefintely. Price stability at all costs; we're about to find out what those costs actually are.
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Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby patience » Mon 30 May 2011, 09:13:58

Lore said: "Here let me fix that, "Modern capitalism fails again and again and again.”

If by that you meant Crony Capitalism, then I agree.

No help coming from China, who is divesting itself of dollar-denominated assets as fast as they can without outright crashing the market. Japan has taken a hit to GDP and infrastructure that is as yet unfathomed, but sure to take them out as a T-bond buyer. From what I have read, the Fed has been buying nearly all of the new T-bond issues since the first of this year. You cut that off and where you gonna find buyers?

The Fed will likely come up with a new name for it, but we will see either a continuation of the same QE, or the US will fold up like a cheap tent.

My bet is that we will see ever more and larger amounts of printing (for lack of a better term), until the dollar goes into the sewer. The only choice is default, in one form or another. Inflation is just another form of default.
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Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Mon 30 May 2011, 10:10:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') agree this stock market bubble is a consequence of Fed policy, QE (it's recent climb began in late 2008) but gold and oil (not so silver) have been on their own trajectory long before QE . It is wrong to blame commodities inflation on QE.


not to pick on pStarr, but that is as good a point as any to jump into the conversation.

It is NOT wrong to blame commodities price rises on QE, because QE has put the "Turbo" into commodity price rises.

On March 18, 2009, Bernanke announced part of QE1, $300 Billion worth. The price of gold rose about 7.2% in the next 24 hours, from $893 to $957. I mention the gold price because it is widely considered to be a barometer on the health of world currencies.

Although some bankers attempt to dismiss gold as a "barbarous relic", in 2011 central banks around the world have become a net buyer of gold. Bankers can say whatever they want ... if they have so much faith in their currencies, why are they buying gold ?

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http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/ ... eline.html

As outlined by the staff at CalculatedRisk, QE1 had its roots in the September 18-September 25 time-frame. Thursday September 18 was the day when the Dow crashed due to huge coordinated withdrawals by as-yet-un-named but large market participants.

September 25 was the day Washington Mutual (with $300 billion in liabilities) was assigned to Chase (who paid $2 Billion for it). As I remember it, that was the most panic-stricken week in the financial world during the 2007 to 2009 time-frame.

Various QE announcements were made during the months following September 2008, up to March 2009.

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QE2 was formally announced on approximately November 3, 2010.

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif//aunov10.gif

During the weeks that followed, gold rose from 1345 to 1420, about 5.6%.


In both cases, gold retraced its steps and backed off from its short-term highs, before continuing the price increases that got it to its recent high ($1570) and today's price ($1530).


One of the land-mines that stopped the world economy during the 2008-2009 time-frame was banks' unwillingness to loan to each other, because nobody knew who had what toxic credit derivatives on their books.

Now those toxic credit derivatives have been moved onto 'the books' of the US government, though they have obviously used enough intermediaries to create a genuine hall of mirrors.

If you did into Karl Denninger's archives, you will find some great charts that show how much of the US economy is currently a "command economy" -

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The withdrawal of QE will remove 5 to 10% of the US economy overnight.


As many including Michael Ruppert have pointed out, the Fukushima quake was not kind to the world economy. But since it occurred on March 11, 2011, near the end of a fiscal quarter, its full effects won't be seen until the end of the second fiscal quarter - June 30 ... coincidentally, isn't that when QE2 ends ? What a coincidence ! - in this case, I think it may actually be a coincidence.


It's very possible that even with a QE3, the US economy will crater when the world Q2 (second quarter 2011) numbers come out.

The Fukushima Quake almost destroyed the 2nd or 3rd largest economy in the world. The only reason it didn't destroy it yet is because the Japanese people are continuing their 'economic activity' in a country that has been quite liberally sprinkled with radiation, including plutonium (sprinkled would be an understatement).

The problem with QE3 is that the "Jig is Up" on the US $. Any administrator in any sovereign wealth fund on earth can dig up the Fed's money curves ... one of them is named "BOGNONBR" (Board of Governors, non borrowed reserves).

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EXCRESNS is a fun one to watch -

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Up till March 11, 2011, Japan was a net buyer of US debt instruments (aka US bonds). As of the time of the Fukushima earthquake, Japan became a net seller of US bonds.

At the same time, China, one of the other former top 3 buyers of US bonds, was following through on their threat to finance much less US debt.

And, coincidentally, within a week before March 11, 2011, Bill Gross @ PIMCO, one of the biggest private bond funds in the world, announced that they would stop buying US bonds.

In other words, the US had already lost China as a "top buyer" of US bonds by the beginning of March, 2011, and in the first 2 weeks of March, 2011, lost 2 more primary customers to finance US debt.

GAME OVER !


That the US has to finance its own debt by printing money is becoming glaringly obvious to everyone who doesn't allow themselves to be lulled into complacency by Bernanke's, Geithner's, and Obama's, pseudo-soothing statements about the US economy.



That's the problem with QE3 - the world knows that the US is printing money.

If I was Bernanke, I would think about raising interest rates a nominal amount, to goose the US $ relative to other currencies. It won't really affect the interest costs of the US gov. that much because - they're already bankrupt (printing money to pay the interest on the debt).

They also have a strong need to goose the economy before June 30, so that the visible effects of the slowdown caused by Japan's collapse are less visible, to avoid a heavy-duty stock market collapse.
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Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Mon 30 May 2011, 13:40:17

The Eurozone is going to come apart sometime soon and the dollar will be out of the woods so to speak until that debacle brings everyone else down with it. IMHO its still a bit down the road for that, but things are extremely precarious at the moment so any "unexpected/Black Swan" type event could change that. I think the dollar stops its fall momentarily while the EU does its dance..then the real fun will begin. It will gain strength on the false idea its in better shape as a currency..but that will be short lived.

Interesting times to be sure.
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Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Mon 30 May 2011, 19:11:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pedalling_faster', 'T')he US had already lost China as a "top buyer" of US bonds by the beginning of March, 2011, and in the first 2 weeks of March, 2011, lost 2 more primary customers to finance US debt.

GAME OVER ![/b]

That the US has to finance its own debt by printing money is becoming glaringly obvious to everyone who doesn't allow themselves to be lulled into complacency by Bernanke's, Geithner's, and Obama's, pseudo-soothing statements about the US economy.


That's the problem with QE3 - the world knows that the US is printing money.

If I was Bernanke, I would think about raising interest rates a nominal amount, to goose the US $ relative to other currencies.


There's absolutely no doubt that QE3 will happen ... probably by the fall of 2011. The only open questions are (1) what will be its form, magnitude, and duration; and (2) whether it will be overt or covert.

Meanwhile, let's not forget that the Fed has placed the US economy on permanent life support, as evidenced by the following pattern of ultra-loose monetary policy:

----- The Fed cutting interest rates from 5.25-0.25% (Sept ’07-today)
----- The Bear Stearns deal with Fed taking on $30 billion in junk mortgages (March ’08)
----- The Fed opens up various lending windows to investment banks (March ’08)
----- The SEC proposes banning short-selling on financial stocks (July ’08)
----- Paulson gets a blank check for Fannie/Freddie but promises not to use it (July ’08)
----- Paulson uses the blank check with Fannie/ Freddie spending $400 billion in the process (Sept ’08).
----- The Fed takes over insurance company AIG (Sept ’08) for $85 billion.
----- The Fed doles out $25 billion for the auto makers (Sept ’08)
----- The Feds kick off the $700 billion TARP with the Government taking stakes in private banks (Oct ’08)
----- The Fed offers to buy commercial paper (non-bank debt) from non-financial firms (Oct ’08)
----- The Fed offers $540 billion to backstop money market funds (Oct ’08)
----- The Feds agree to back up to $280 billion of Citigroup’s liabilities (Oct ’08).
----- $40 billion more to AIG (Nov ’08)
----- Feds agree to back up $140 billion of Bank of America’s liabilities (Jan ’09)
----- Obama’s $787 Billion Stimulus (Jan ’09)
----- QE lite (August ’10)
----- QE 2 (November ’10)

This is unprecedented by several orders of magnitude, and it shows that the Fed will stop at nothing to maintain BAU. Congress has, in effect, delegated to the Fed the power to become the centralized planning and controlling force for the US economy. The problem is that the Fed responds to every problem by printing money and buying up worthless assets.

Image

As long as interest rates stay at zero, the Fed can maintain this shell-game indefinitely.
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Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Mon 30 May 2011, 19:49:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pedalling_faster', 'T')he US had already lost China as a "top buyer" of US bonds by the beginning of March, 2011, and in the first 2 weeks of March, 2011, lost 2 more primary customers to finance US debt. GAME OVER !


This is an ominous trend: as the Fed buys increasingly more US Treasurys, other nations are decreasing their holdings. This will not have a happy ending.

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At some point, given the current trend, the Fed must either (1) increase interest rates; or (2) force the US to become a full-time money-printing banana republic.

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Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 30 May 2011, 20:03:01

Good analysis. Question is, which option will we ultimately get:
(1) increase interest rates (and kill economic growth---a moot point given peak oil)

or

(2) force the US to become a full-time money-printing banana republic (hyperinflation)
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Re: Former Fed and Lauded Author Says End of QE2 = Depressio

Unread postby bratticus » Wed 08 Jun 2011, 08:24:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Bernanke Says ‘Uneven’ Recovery Still Needs Stimulus
By Caroline Salas Gage and Steve Matthews / Bloomberg / June 8, 2011

... Stocks and bonds fell as some investors interpreted the comments as a signal that the Fed is unlikely to deploy a new round of bond purchases to bolster the economy.

“He’s saying monetary policy is on course and right on, and there’s no need to change at this point,” said Sung Won Sohn, an economics professor at California State University- Channel Islands and former chief economist at Wells Fargo & Co. “The implication is not only will there be no change, but a third round of quantitative easing is not likely to come.”
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