[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ararboin', '"')I don't know about Kansas, but good farmland in Illinois and Indiana is going for around $3000 per acre, which would put your 500 acres at $1.5 million before you bought the mansion. I've been looking for something in the country. Here in the mid-west it isn't easy. Hard to find anything less than 40 acres for sale. And if it's anywhere near a city (jobs), the prices are very high."



Here's what $149,000 can buy in ND. This one's sold, but there are more like it:

http://www.prairieroserealty.com/hetletve1.htm

[americandream]

I looked at a place in Sligo on 3 acres 12 years ago for Punts 7000. And the owners were desperate to sell. Kickin myself for not gettin it. Kells is so busy on that wretched N3 I thought. Nose to tail traffic to Dublin. It drove us back to New Zealand. And Donegal's full of lawyers from Belfast.

[HarvKilljoy]

Well, this is a bit odd, because there's a several-month gap in posts... I've found peak oil to be one of the defining topics in my life of late. I'm married, with two young children, and I'm going through some significant changes in my relationship, partly because of peak oil and my interest in it.

I may be on the brink of a divorce, in fact- not entirely because of my interest in peak oil, but certainly in part. I've been an open-minded person all my life, and when I brought up peak oil to my wife, she was partially receptive to it, but the bottom line in her mind is to worry about our kids' lives right now. She doesn't want to even think about the future, much less do anything about preparing.

And she's got her own issues to deal with, issues that are causing a much greater rift between her and I than any peak oil stuff. That's for another time, another discussion.

Speaking with spouses about this topic, peak oil- I've found that it's a big break between our mind-sets and world-views. I'm much more focused on "big picture" things like peak oil and the environment than she is. She and I have argued quite a bit of late, and relative to this topic- she doesn't think she's compatible with someone like me who so openly accepts "out there" subjects, such as peak oil. I'm too radical a thinker for her tastes.

Ahh well... I have to wonder how "her tastes" are going to change when she's starving to death because of the massive crash in food production that will follow the decline of oil production.

I have to wonder if I'm even going to be married in a few months, so this whole topic of "talking to your spouse" may be a moot point. In another vein, I've talked with my parents about this, and they're very receptive to it. Heck, they said they'd been trying to tell me about this kind of stuff for years! Yeah, we talk about it pretty regularly, and it's an open-minded discourse on the topic.

I brought it up to an old friend of mine, one I view as extremely intelligent- he majored in genetic engineering at the University of Minnesota a while back. He's all gung-ho about how technology will save us, how oil is, according to his view, produced in the mantle of the Earth, inexhaustible... he buys into that abiotic origin of oil theory, dunno why- all the stuff I've ever read about on that subject leads me to believe that oil is most certainly biotic in origin, and a limited resource, not inexhaustible...

I wrote his views off a while back- I still talk to him, but I just don't waste the time about peak oil- he lives in the hood in Minneapolis, and I don't expect him to survive when the crash hits.

Other friends I've talked to also accept the topic and theory, but they've taken the "oh shit the world's gonna end, what do I do now!?" approach- my buddy Chris and his wife Virginia, for example- I told them about it, and he's taken it very hard, even angrily... he's hurt and the rest emotionally- the early stages we've all gone through in accepting this thing.

I still talk with him- he's got a wife and two kids to think about. I just try hard to be as gentle about it as I can. I'm thinking about him and his family as part of a network of people to work with to survive this thing.

Whew... I have to learn to write smaller posts... chat with y'all later on this!

HARV

[mgibbons19]

Dude, Youre from Owatonna. I've got some family there!! Small world.

Don't let PO kill your marriage. Don't you think it's good to have a big picture person and a right now person looking after your young 'uns? If there are other issues, fair enough. But the wackjobs on this site (myself included) don't know how this is going to turn out.

Bet ya Cabella's will take a hit if it's true.

[dougr]

I'm amazed reading Harv's post.
My situation is almost exactly, word-for-word identical.
Of course every couple is bound to have "other issues" and like Harv I won't go into that here either.
My experience with the stock market and chart analysis is what brought the PO situation to my attention over a year ago. As it had progressed to that point I came to realize that it's for real. Supply/demand and the price chart for oil left me no other conclusion. So, according to my approach to the stock market, the fundamental investigation had to follow.
Even so, I held back from bringing it to my wife's attention until the beginning of this year.
With 4 kids aged 11 to 16...we're practically a whole community already.
I see PO as a situation to prepare for but my wife refuses to consider it.
I'm not even talking about big changes (at least to me they're not big). We live in high value suburb and the cost of maintaining leaves almost 0 at the end of each month. Higher oil prices would impact us pretty quickly. The reason for the home's value is location based on soon to be, very likely imo, obsolete assumptions.
There are a number of better areas around here for the soon to arrive conditions. That would be 10 to 15 miles outside of the somewhat smallish city where we'd be closer to good farmland with more neighborly neighbors. A move would cut our debt in half and reduce our monthly bills by over $1200. Even if PO doesn't strike for several more years, to me, it's not a bad idea anyway.
Up until now we've taken full advantage of the housing bubble in buying our current home comparatively very low 6 yrs ago. If the window of "opportunity" to do this closes at any time soon the consequences could be multiples more devastating than they might otherwise be for the family.
It's not really all that great thinking a buyer for our house would be doing so walking into PO but anybody buying in this neighborhood will want to if it's my house they buy or somebody else's here.
So...my wife thinks I've gone crazy. Both her side of the family and my side are ready to lynch me for talking about what I think is necessary vs what she thinks must be maintained.
At first I tried explaining what PO was and how oil is a part of everything in the current economy, how the economy is necessarily tied to growth and that no growth over time would probably lead to collapse. I tried showing her articles and conclusions from Simmons, Campbell, Deffeyes etc.
I rented The End of Suburbia which she by that time refused to watch.
Her conclusion is that if I am not going to be completely accepting of maintaining the status quo, I might as well just go and she'll get that process (me going) started for me if I keep trying to bring it up.
It's crazy.
whew...I needed that.

[k_semler]

Wow, now I'm glad that I probably never will have a significant other! It seems like too much of a liablity to emotions and logic. I would tell them to stay away from me, but they seem to be doing that quite fine on thier own.

[NEOPO]

YES!!

Most of us who try to explain this to our friends and family will experience pretty much the same effect.

Its like trying to tell an addict that they have a problem, it is a problem and they need to realize and deal with it ...hahahahah

Good F$%^$& luck!!!

We are very addicted to our lifestyles that are very dependent upon oil thus we are addicted to oil.

And we love our vision of a calm future with kids in college then off to grad school or some fantastic job in some fantastic career that we never pushed ourselves enough to reach.

Dream on ...dream on.....dream on.......

Contrary to what some people are experiencing - through diligence and education - the core group of people that I have explained this to seem to really understand the scope and ramifications if not the details of what peak oil means.

I walk them through the same process that got me here.
If they cant stand to read matt savinars page then I will show them something more mainstream like MSN or rueters or other data and articles.

I think the FX docu/movie OIL STORM will "peak" some interest yet will anything really be enough for some people to change their lifestyles?

Its a painful slow process for some.
We must push on even if it brings us ridicule and persecution.

I would think it is now the duty of the enlightened to help those less fortunate.

In other words....... slip a red pill into their sandwich , attack them with peak oil facts when they arent looking, sabotage a birthday party with a surprise viewing of "the end of suburbia" heheh and otherwise keep the ball bouncing!!!

dig it?

[Trab]

The Matrix analogy fits quite well with Peak Oil, and most of the people out there don't really want to know what's going on. Exposing them to the PO theory and the facts that back it up may not register very well.

There are plenty of facts out there for many facets of our life that just don't register. So many, in fact that people's eyes often glaze over when talking about things that don't directly impact them:

- I know that there's been something fishy about the last two presidential elections, but since it doesn't affect my daily life (in an obvious, in-your-face way, at least), I'll ingore it.

- We started the war in Iraw looking for WMD's, and there aren't any. Ho-hum, old news.

Information overload has hit new heights. There are plenty of things that are going to kill us, or ruin our economy... global warming, bid flu, globalization, terrorism, etc. There are so many issues screaming for attention out there that PO just seems to be yet another one, no more worthy of prolonged attention at this point than any of the others. Your strident interest in the subject won't be likely to convert too many people.

My wife is aware of my 'hobby' of following PO-related stuff,and chalks it up to some doom&gloom issue in my psyche. Attempting to discuss the issue with her meets with resistance, and I therefore rarely talk about it. I think she's slowly getting it, but it'll be a soft sell done over a long time period.

You need to decide the relative importance of preparing for the peak, and how you want to balance that with harming your family/safety net/relationships. Since we're all still unsure as to how the peak will manifest itself, and how long a process it will be, there's no one right answer.

Do you think it will be a long, slow crash, or an quick hard one? Maybe it won't really be a crash, but a recession of some length and magnitude. Maybe nothing will happen. Maybe political or other environmental issues will happen first and mask the peak. None of us really knows for sure, and we all have our theories on how the whole process will play out. Your personal point of view will affect how you want to go about things, and you'll need to balance that with the potential impacts your choices will have on your support system.

In my case, I am unwilling at this point to risk ruining my family situation over the peak. My wife has no interest in running off to the countryside or a small town to start subsistence farming. Maybe that will change at some point, and maybe it will not. I personally have made the decision to make a go of it where my family is, right or wrong.

No one likes hearing about their way of life being severely impacted or possible ending. The most common reaction I've found other than denial is them accepting what I say, thinking about it a lot while we're talking, and then going home and carrying on like I never talked to them. Getting people to change their way of life usually requires outside influence. Doesn't matter if it's eating better, managing your money, or attempting to avoid dying in a post-peak conflagration.

[LadyRuby]

We went camping this weekend. There was a family next to us, very friendly they seemed like really nice people. I noticed they had a brand new SUV, still with temporary license plates, etc. So I said to my husband, "I feel bad for them. They don't know about peak oil. Think I should tell them?" (not that I would tell strangers...). "No," he said, "You should be happy for them that they don't know."

He's tired of hearing about it, tired of my glooming. Mostly I think he's tired of hearing me making suggestions and pleas that we move some of our investments into safer harbors.

The thing is that I've always been the laid back one, and he the worrier. He'd worry about our finances and I'd say things like, "We'll be fine, I'm not worried." And he'd get frustrated saying, "You never worry about anything!!" So in our 10 plus years together I'm the one who has never been concerned about the future.

He's basically recognizes P.O. as a problem but he doesn't really see terrible ramifications, and is kind of tired of hearing about it. From my standpoint, I see a (possibly) limited amount of time to make some changes (especially to investments, not that we have that much but I don't want us to lose them.)

But then I also start wondering if perhaps there ISN'T going to be an immiment problem, that we have a decade or two....??

Anyway, just kind of ranting. Anyone else have problems like this?

[skiwi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', 'A')nyone else have problems like this?

[CarlinsDarlin]

LadyRuby,
Yes, from time to time Carlin gets a glazed over look in his eyes and tells me he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. At least once in the last six months, he's gone on strike on me and crashed for a weekend on the couch instead of helping with the animals and garden. He said he was "tired of farming" .

On one hand, he understands the need to prepare, and on the other, he doesn't want to think about all the conveniences that will be lost or hard to come by. Some days he wants to just get up and go to work without thinking about anything but what's on his plate that day. Some days he'll dive in and help setting up some system that we'll need.

It's all ebb and flow. There are certainly days I don't want to think about it either. Once in a while I wish I didn't know. Then reality sets in, and I'm glad I do know and have time and some limited means to prepare.

When my husband doesn't want to hear about it anymore, I give him a break. I just drop the subject in conversation. But, I don't stop preparing. Actions speak louder than words, and he sees how seriously I take this. Just about the time I'm ready to give up on him, I'll hear him mention something about peak oil to someone else. He never uses those words, but he talks about having a garden, animals, alternative light and heat, etc.... telling people there will be a time we'll NEED this stuff - and those who don't have it will be screwed.

Maybe your husband is taken aback some precisely because you have never been the worrier. Perhaps he doesn't know what he should do (do any of us, really?) and so he sits and does nothing.

I don't know much about investments - stocks and such, but I invest my money and my time in my homestead. I figure in the long run it will have the best return. Yes, I'd love to have extra money, but there may indeed come a time when money is not worth the paper it's printed on. My land value may go down, but it's paid for and I'm not selling, so it really doesn't matter to me. As long as it's productive land, it will give good returns to me.

Think about what you can do to prepare short of worrying about those investments. Take small steps to prepare. Doing something - anything - will make you feel better than sitting around worrying. And, it might have the added benefit of making your husband see that you take this very seriously - and haven't just developed an interest in your investments.

Kathy

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CarlinsDarlin', 'I') don't know much about investments - stocks and such, but I invest my money and my time in my homestead. I figure in the long run it will have the best return. Yes, I'd love to have extra money, but there may indeed come a time when money is not worth the paper it's printed on. My land value may go down, but it's paid for and I'm not selling, so it really doesn't matter to me. As long as it's productive land, it will give good returns to me.

Think about what you can do to prepare short of worrying about those investments. Take small steps to prepare. Doing something - anything - will make you feel better than sitting around worrying. And, it might have the added benefit of making your husband see that you take this very seriously - and haven't just developed an interest in your investments.

Kathy

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', ' ') I just don't want to lose our house, the one thing that could get us through...

[Ghog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', 'W')e went camping this weekend. There was a family next to us, very friendly they seemed like really nice people. I noticed they had a brand new SUV, still with temporary license plates, etc. So I said to my husband, "I feel bad for them. They don't know about peak oil. Think I should tell them?" (not that I would tell strangers...). "No," he said, "You should be happy for them that they don't know."

He's tired of hearing about it, tired of my glooming. Mostly I think he's tired of hearing me making suggestions and pleas that we move some of our investments into safer harbors.

The thing is that I've always been the laid back one, and he the worrier. He'd worry about our finances and I'd say things like, "We'll be fine, I'm not worried." And he'd get frustrated saying, "You never worry about anything!!" So in our 10 plus years together I'm the one who has never been concerned about the future.

He's basically recognizes P.O. as a problem but he doesn't really see terrible ramifications, and is kind of tired of hearing about it. From my standpoint, I see a (possibly) limited amount of time to make some changes (especially to investments, not that we have that much but I don't want us to lose them.)

But then I also start wondering if perhaps there ISN'T going to be an immiment problem, that we have a decade or two....??

Anyway, just kind of ranting. Anyone else have problems like this?

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ghog', 'T')he question of a healthy obsession would probably depend what side of the fence you are on.

[Ghog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t must be harder if you're the person who usually worries anyway, because your wife probably just tacks this on as another thing you're worrying about

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', 'C')onsidering how many houses overall are "not" payed off I see it as an unlikely scenario that the occupants will be all evicted in case of a full blown economic dive. Who would conduct such evictions and where whould they put half the population? All those "proud house owners" will simply start to squat their houses.

[MicroHydro]

My spouse hates hearing about PO but loves the oil future trading profits

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', ' ') It must be harder if you're the person who usually worries anyway, because your wife probably just tacks this on as another thing you're worrying about.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', 'C')onsidering how many houses overall are "not" payed off I see it as an unlikely scenario that the occupants will be all evicted in case of a full blown economic dive. Who would conduct such evictions and where whould they put half the population? All those "proud house owners" will simply start to squat their houses.