[oowolf]

I'm presently living on less than UD$100/ month. So, there.

[Crusty]

My Mother in her later years often talked about the 'Good Old Days' in the '50's' in the Suburbs of a Capital City in Australia. No-one could afford a car and of the standard one income family. Saturday Nights where 2 or 3 family's would gather at the only TV in the street, the blokes would carry down a couple of lounge's from those who had one and everyone would bring a salad, casserole etc for great Saturday Nights get togethers. I grew up in the 60's where everyone had a 1/4 acre block filled with fruit trees, chooks, vege beds and a small lawn area to kick a footy. Of hot summer nights (no air-con) where everyone would pull their mattresses onto the front lawn for a good nights sleep. To a kid it felt like a wonderful kind of street party. Local kids would share a footy or a cricket bat and make up all kinds of home rules games. Saturday morning sports were against other local schools within pushbike distance, the coaches were a Dad who just read a book on the subject and cost nothing. We built bicycles out of spare parts and life revolved around a few suburban blocks.

I didn't feel poor because everyone was in the same boat. It might be naive reminiscing but everyone seemed to smile and be laughing a lot more in those days. Everyone I know of my age remembers being poor but they always smile on thinking about it. Sure we have a lot more stuff now but we work longer hours to get it. Everyone is stressed and worrying more and suicide a national health problem. In the 80's I had a holiday in Bali and the thing I remember about it the most is that the locals were always laughing and smiling although dirt poor. The westerners who had all this money weren't.

I know I'm a glass half full kind of guy but I'm not sure where we're heading will be all bad. It will be a nightmare in those over-populated third world countries but there's is very little I can do about that. I can see the big corporations slowly going down the toilet but smart small businessmen will always find a way. An example of this is the local butcher here found the rising rent at the local shops got too high so he left and fitted out his trailer for 'home kills' for the Blockies and now is making good money, not huge money but good money.

Being a Doomer for me is prepping for the future. A Doomstead is building a resilient/energy efficient home home and buying the stuff for it that is important, but cheap now, for a post peak oil future. I don't believe in an isolated existence but living in a community and getting to know your neighbours. Fuel, electricity, water, sewerage, food etc is going up and up right now and no-one (except doomers) is asking why. Governments will never be able to change in time because their populations won't let them. Everyone wants/demands the BAU continue at the very least but would prefer increased standards of living. Standards of living are going down and everyone is blaming Governments, Big Business, Middle East etc, they're scared and worried about something they don't want to contemplate. It's just Peak Oil not the end of the World.

Things will get harder and harder but it's not impossible. The high level of Health Care will constantly get lower and we'll probably lose those last few years, we'll have to eat seasonally and grow a lot of our own food. We will be riding pushbikes instead of driving cars. Work will be more labour intensive. Holidays will be down to the local beach etc with groups of friends. Family Homes will probably have to have extended multi-generational familys in them. But life is in balance, and I believe for every negative there is a positive. Those last few years on a machine gasping for breath aren't that great anyway, the food will be a celebration (remember giving thanks for the food on the table), we'll be stronger, fitter and healthier, Family holidays with mates, cold beer and home cricket in a local caravan park is more fun than a 5 star resort in Europe with strangers. Child care will be free and I think the kids would like time with Grandpa than some stranger who's only doing it for the money.

Well that's enough of my rant. There will be drama's and I'm sure the powers that be won't fix it. There's no stopping Peak Oil and we'll all have to adjust, no matter how upset we get or who we blame it's going to happen, best ready ourselves as best we can because at least we are aware of the coming Doom.

I for one intend to enjoy the ride.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')
I notice that not many people talk about doing things around here lately, I think that has a lot to do with the whole "doomstead" idea that the only approved way to be resilient is to shoehorn yourself into some throwback life - with the addition of a few assault rifles of course. That's too bad.

Don't get me wrong! I think real life skills and capabilities beyond punching the timeclock are extremely important and the more redundancies you can build into your situation the more able you'll be to weather whatever comes along, BUT...

I had really thought there would be more new ideas along the way, people blending the old with the new, stuff like telecommuting from the farm (my personal favorite ), online commerce, home/business hybrids, distributed production, co-ops, who knows? Long time members will remember gg3 who was in the connectivity business, he talked a lot about working from home, something I thought we'd have heard a whole bunch about by now - at least here. Just like every political screed nowadays, it's always either/or, commuting or dirt farming.

[Ibon]

There is a space between when the status quo dream deflates and what replaces it becomes established. Call it a Bardo state of sorts for our collective culture. I think we are experiencing this at the moment. We are neither here nor there and are not firmly in the grasp of any new direction.

I suppose this will last several decades. We focus a lot on the declining physical infrastructure of peak oil and see this as the catalyst. I wonder if we haven't underestimated what happens to a collective culture in an extended bardo state between collective dreams. Cultures are defined by their collective belief systems.

We are in between that which is dying and that which hasn't yet formed. And we still don't even know what that yet is. I expect though that collectively we will exist for an extended period in this neither here or there.

[Crusty]

I think Ibon is right on the Money and it got me thinking about my own personnel circumstances and how I can help with this Transition.

Susan came around the other day with her sons who were visiting from Byron Bay to drop off a surfboard I had leant them. It was her first visit and her sons were interested in permaculture so I showed them around my place and how everything worked and interacted. She said she was not much of a gardener but it was very interesting. In particular I told her about the organic fertiliser I had just put down and how it smelled like... Victory!! (smelt like shit). She's in my Dragon Boat Team and after a hard training session we always re-hydrate with a few drinks at the Tree Bar. At the Tree Bar she says that her boys were stoked about my place and she'd always wanted to see Permaculture in practice and thanks for the visit. She also said she had been playing around in her garden and put down some of the organic fertilizer and her garden smelled like... Victory. All of a sudden the other green gardeners in our team got excited and started telling her about how they use the 'Bear Shit' (slang) before they put down lawn clippings to compensate for the Nitrogen extraction etc etc etc. A few of the other ladies who a few years ago were very BAU and uninterested started asking when they could visit. I told them it's not exclusive and they're welcome any time if they're interested.

Easter is just around the corner and I've got about 15 people coming to stay from Brisbane and the Gold Coast. Most have been before and love the vibe. Peak Oil and Doomer issues are never discussed but campfire discussions always gravitate towards the surf, fruit trees, vege gardens etc and living cheaply. Eventually their wives started come here to see what the fuss is all about. (Rossco started printing "Kamp Krusty' T-Shirts, not the crass commercial stuff from Billabong, Quiksilver etc, very exclusive, and all of the guys/girls, so far, love their holidays as it's so different from their BAU lifestyles in the City) I make sure there is a fresh bin in the composting toilet and the vege patch, fruit trees, tent area etc are looking great. Despite their reservations they love the vibe, cope with the composting toilet and enjoy the 'powered down' lifestyle and always come back (so far). At the end of the holiday I give them banana, lemon grass cutting etc (if they want it) to take home. They always want to pay for their stay but I decline and they always leave a slab of beer (that's a lot of beer) which is a nice kind of barter. This year I have my new toy, the Beach Cruiser Electric Bicycle!! Those who want to will find the joy of riding it to the beach with the wind in their hair!

Not everyone wants to embrace a 'powered down' lifestyle however. A few years ago it was about 50/50 here but lately I've noticed it's about 80/20 interested in living alternatively. I was at a party last weekend an a bloke who is very into the BAU and has done very well financially out of it says to me, "Every time I see you riding your electric bike I want to run you down." I replied, "Thanks for the advise and if I could offer you some, firstly I would leave a nasty stain on your nice new 4WD and secondly it's ok to kick a guy in the nuts if your naked in a prison shower fighting for your anal virginity, I'm going over there now." (best to avoid those guys) The blokes/girls in the group (as did I) found it hugely funny!! Him not so much.

So as I said before I think Ibon is right. Those of us who can see what's happening should help the others prepare. For me I avoid using the words, 'Doom, Doomer, Doomstead, Peak Oil, Climate Change, Green etc' I think they know what's coming, they just can't process it. To show them how to power down in a way that's fun with good humor is the best way to help I think. If they want to know more (I point them to peakoil.com) they'll ask when they're ready.

Maybe it's time to start the "Doom Larder Dinner Partys"

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '
')I'll admit I know very little about telecommuting, but it strikes me as being limited to jobs that will be redundant as the economy continues to spiral downwards. It also doesn't apply to any hands-on jobs. My uncle is an elevator mechanic for example----can't exactly do that from home. I work on a farm---can't plant tomatoes or harvest chives via the internet.

[careinke]

Good post Mos,

My two Nieces and my sister all work from home for health insurance companies. They are paid well and have good benefits. But you have to wonder if they can work at home, whats to prevent much cheaper labor from say India doing the same job from their home.

The one advantage I can see to socialized medicine would be the freedom it would give to the worker. He would no longer be so dependent on a companies health care plan. This would allow him to change jobs more easily, plus it would encourage a lot more entrepreneurship without the threat of a medical bill catastrophe hanging over your head. More entrepreneurship = more jobs.

[Pops]

Yea, I guess I'd better quit telecommuting, there's no future in it.

Maybe I'll grow some $10/lb baby radicchio or become a travel agent.

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'Y')ea, I guess I'd better quit telecommuting, there's no future in it.

Maybe I'll grow some $10/lb baby radicchio or become a travel agent.

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."

[Pops]

Sorry Loki, I was pissed, but not at you, my router has been acting hinky and I lost a truly awe inspiring post... that bit was all I got back.

Anyway I was pontificating about how every job is transitional over the course of a lifetime, they've been that way for 150 years and now is no different. I started out in a print shop in high school when the only transistors were in the radio, eventually I was one of the first designers in the area completely digital (I paid $10k for (I think) one MB of RAM!). Now, 40 years after I started, a dozen photo lithography trades (and their tools) are extinct (not to mention huge changes in companies like Kodak) and you can hire a designer online from Kuala Lumpor to make a logo for 20 bucks. So as far as it goes, transition is nothing new in the oil age. The difference now is that if peak oil is all it's cracked up to be, the transition and so the investment is not toward getting MORE out of life but getting a life without more.

For peakers wanting to get a head start, the big problem is the getting from here to what P called "Real old-fashioned towns and communities built around Digital technology, Living Machines, Arcologies, and Solvivas!." - or whatever version of the future you favor. (btw, I agree with all you said P)

Right now we are at the peak of stuff, but it's peak cheap stuff. If you are an old fart like Crusty you know what I mean, in the '60s there just wasn't the amount of stuff on the shelves we have now - and if you're careful, you can buy stuff designed and built exceptionally well for a really low cost. We rebuilt the bathroom from the dirt up last year and the fixtures were really well built, we paid good money - nothing extravagant but they were surprisingly well machined, all O rings and no packing or washers, etc.

But the very same cheap stuff pretty well precludes anyone from building and selling anything on a small, local scale unless being built locally is the hook and there are enough wealthy folks nearby that imagine themselves your patron.

My Amish neighbors asked if I could make some inexpensive custom cabinets for an office they were building (the successful Amish farmers around here are contractors in their day job) and I told them I could but they would be better off adapting boxed cabinets from HoDepot because I just couldn't do it as cheap or quick as knocking a few manufactured units together.

I don't know how many threads and blog posts I've tapped out mulling around how we might go about getting across the divide between exurb and post-modern-agrarian. "who'll be the next small farmer" - " Boomers could begin another movement" - "young family farmers" - blah blah.

But there is very little room to work out a transition if a person (albeit peaker) wants to milk every last dreg out of the old world before making a change. I've pretty well quit harping because I've realized people are going to "extend and pretend" way beyond the point where they should realize the only move left is down... it happened with the dot.com's and with RE and then commodities and now it's commodities again and gold especially I guess, everyone believes they have the herd beat, right up till they're suckin hind tit... or none at all.

I've averaged maybe $12k -$15k/yr from telecommuting the last 7 years out here which is OK since I've already put in my 30 years making mortgage payments. I don't "work" more than a couple hours a day average except around this time of year. In my spare time I plug around, raise calves, garden, some few odd jobs for another $6k-8k maybe. The telecommute-while-you-learn-to-live-country gig is perfect if you have a couple hours of chores to do mornings, want to hoe some weeds or putz around the greenhouse an hour in the afternoon and maybe play around in the shop a bit while there is still some light (before Wipeout comes on the boob tube).

Like anything else it isn't for everyone, I've been self employed for almost 20 years so self-starting is no problem. Of course you have to have a skill to sell or a position to leverage but if you get your stuff done in front of a screen and it doesn't really matter where it is, you might as well be doing it on your own time. It's one of the few ways you can actually live rural without simply being a commuter with an extra big yard.

[Crusty]

Was reading in the local paper about the health of our Kids. Australia has a huge problem with childhood obesity which is running at 40% (Higher than the US I believe). The Govt has just tested all the kids in the country and published the results. The primary school here (about 300 pupils) recorded 0% of overweight or obese kids. The Principle claimed credit for this was as a result of his nutritional teaching and compulsory daily physical education. I think it's the lifestyle of this small country town. There is no McDonalds, Hungry Jacks etc. In facts there is no take-away at all except for a fish and chip shop which receives no advertising on the TV. There is no Shopping Malls here for the kids to hang-out in, drooling over their next purchase. There are no electronic shops for them to buy their next computer game. This town was hit hard by the GFC and money is tight with no spare money to buy their kids the normal consumer crap and people who never had a vege patch are starting them. The Kids have nothing to do but hang-out at the skate park or down at the beach surfing and fishing. They get bored and ride around to mates place to kick a footy. They play sport on the weekends and practice after school. They are healthy, fit and happy living a Post Peak Lifestyle which brings a tear to this Crusty Old Sea Dog's Eye!!

Also, my daughter rang last night (late 20's) and told me she went around to some mates house and they were all talking about ...Peak Oil!! They tried to educate her and she told them not to bother as her Dad had been talking about this crap for years. When the subject of bug out plans came up, half had none and the other half said they would move in with their parents. My daughter told them her Dad had been working his guts out on his place for about a decade so that's where she's going. I told her to pick up a caravan on her way up (they should be pretty cheap by then) with her last tank of petrol. Actually she's a builder by trade so she could be pretty handy here. On seeing Hawkcreek's shipping container home however (Great Job!!) maybe that's a better way for her to go if TSHTF.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'S')orry Loki, I was pissed, but not at you, my router has been acting hinky and I lost a truly awe inspiring post... that bit was all I got back.

Anyway I was pontificating about how every job is transitional over the course of a lifetime, they've been that way for 150 years and now is no different.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'N')ot sure what's next (basket weaving? insurance salesman? porn star?), but gotta stay on my toes.....

[radon]

No one seems to be considering this option:

Instead of buying a big "doomstead", buy a smaller one in a relative vicinity of a city, and a flat in the city. This way you would put your eggs in different baskets. And this will afford you the flexibility of renting one or the other.

It is usual for city dwellers in Russia to endeavor to build a countryhouse with a garden for themselves, and spend the working week living in the city flat while the weekends at the country house. This saves lots of time on commuting, by the way. I was always wondering why people in the west never do this way and prefer to have a single house, but as big one as possible. And spend lots of time in traffic jams commuting to work every day.

Many retirees in Russia make enjoyable living by renting the city flat and living in the countryhouse, even if their state pension is small.

Not for everyone, of course.

[Newfie]

But not unknown either.

Much of the shore building are second houses, but they don't count much as doomsteads.

Other folks have places in the Pocono's (inland mountain areas) or equivalent's for other cities.

But mostly these are for some kind of fun activity such as bathing or skiing.

There is probably little where they have a simple cottage with a workable garden. But then, by the time you drive out past the suburban sprawl (at least on the East coast) you have shot most of a day.

[Revi]

I think we can figure out ways to transition to a post peak lifestyle. Now is the time to do it. It's like getting your farm ready to support you while you still have a job. You can make investments in equipment and infrastructure you won't be able to do when your job goes away. For example I am thinking of getting a cider press. I'll get it now while I have a job, but may end up using it when no jobs are available. There are lots of things like that we can do now, while the world is in a state of relative normalcy that will pay off when it all goes crackerdog.

[vision-master]

Just what the elites want, we live with less while they keep living with more and more.

[Pops]

I think the Russian example is a good one and it goes along with my idea of a return to larger household - in this case the old farts, or large parts of the clan live at the "dacha" while the young bucks work for cash in town or aircraft carrier or wherever.

[Crusty]

Things slowing down here after the Easter holidays. Had 15 people here (2 still here and not keen to leave, 1 having the time of his life on my elec beach cruiser at the moment). About 70% came from city environments and 30% semi rural. Campfire discussions did get around to peak oil (in a social fashion) and all now seemed aware. The City boys, most who had big mortgages and the others who had wives who loved the BAU appeared to be paralyzed into inaction. They hoped that the Govt, Big Business etc would solve the problems heading their way and then doubted they would. They were basically driving flat out towards the cliff believing the accelerator was stuck and there was nothing they could do. The Rural guys were working on preps; solar elec/water heating, vege patches, fruit trees, chooks etc but were doing it as it was fun not due to peak oil fear.

I think those who prepare will have it easier in a slow decline and be a life boat in a collapse. Those who don't will have their standard of living drop way lower. Relatives and friends of Doomers will be looking to move in when things get intolerable or have to labour on farms. It's kind of like a 180 degree turn. It used to be those people who thrived in the BAU, blamed people who didn't work hard at school, go to University and get high paying jobs for their financial position. In the future I believe it may be Doomers who will be blaming those people who thrived in the BAU for not preparing.

It'll be interesting if Doomers treat the BAU Boys with the same contempt that they treated the less fortunate in the past. I hope they don't as I believe we'll have to work together to get through this. Still.....not sure how many people I could support here.....

[Lore]

It's always good to feel like you're doing something, regardless of the outcome.