[Revi]

I think things are going to get nasty for the average person pretty soon. I think it will be a currency collapse that does the middle class in. The Canadian dollar was at par about 3 weeks ago. Today it's at $104.3. That means we've lost about 4% in a month. If that keeps up we're at 48% in a year. Tell me any kind of investment (except for silver) that can keep up with that. We are losing our buying power every day. Before long we won't have enough to afford a mortgage payment and a car. We need to make as much of the things we need as possible. Any thing we can make saves us having to spend money.

That's why I vote for the semi-rural lifestyle. Even if things go really badly we can still eat. We can heat our house with wood we cut on our woodlot. We can drive around on electricity and eat things we grew and made, like maple syrup for exampe.

[Crusty]

I chose the rural village. Hopefully as things get hard we can resurrect the best of the Old. Like the winter solstice with its Pagan (christmas) celebration. Gifts were preserved food. Truly a beautiful gift when things are hard. Not that keen on witch burnings though.

I like shaved monkey's idea of a village feast. I might be able to find a girlfriend there who appreciates my frugal lifestyle!!!

[Pops]

This is post-peak.

I mean look around, world oil is north of US$125 because 1% of production is shut-in? The last bottom for crude was what, $80? I assume whatever oil anyone has they are selling – unless they think oil's only going to be more expensive down the road. The only reason WTI is cheaper than Brent is because syncrude is landlocked in Cushing OK (for now). We're cooking corn and mining and steam-cleaned greasy sand to get something to burn.

Need I mention recession, "job" destruction? Currency deflation? Commodity inflation? Asset deflation? Resource wars? Culture wars? Economic class war?

I'm thinking every signpost serious Peakers have guessed we'd see, we've seen (I don't count the poly-doom, slate-wiper fantasize-ers). It may be time for those still speculating on what they'll do someday to consider that some day might be now.

----
Peak oil is not an event, it's a condition. One that can't be stocked up for, bugged out from or hedged against. It's more akin to climate than weather, in that you can take temporary shelter from weather but you must learn to live with the climate to be happy.

The most important benefit of cheap oil has been lots of cheap stuff because stuff gives us all "jobs". I think much of that stuff will necessarily go away as commodity costs continue to rise and asset values continue to decline. Assets like savings, homes, stocks, bonds, bass boats, social programs, etc, simply don't have as much value (if any) now that fewer people are buying. Fewer people are making and hauling and selling stuff already, incomes are stagnant and assets have either stagnated (stock market) or outright tanked (home values), we are already well on the way to The Incredible Shrinking Economy.

So yeah, a successful post-peak life is doable. But like thuga says, better think it through and better start soon. The basic premise yesterday was: Get a "Job" - Make a living - Buy stuff.
Tomorrow not so much.



P.S. We're rural though not isolated, I telecommute as a freelance graphic designer, we raise and sell plain-old calves (not miniature-heirloom-designer anything) and garden a little. We live a pretty good life at 50% of the poverty level.

[Skinner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', '
')It could be a big holiday camp lots of fun and no need for money.

[Newfie]

Pops,

I was thinking very much along the same lines. We are into it. From here its just a slow slide, with some bumps and grinds. Unless there is a game changer which would precipitate a fast crash.

My kid the prison guard thought that would be a pretty secure job. Not so much now. They laid off about half the force in Camden, the next county over. And there is talk of privatizing. And apparently NY State is talking about putting a cap on their prison population.

He used to say, "When I loose my job, worry." Now he is worried.

[Plantagenet]

POPS is exactly right (as he often is).

We are already living in the post-Peak Oil period. We are going to see cycles of recession interspersed with economic "recoveries" of various duration for some period into the future. Some parts of the economy may do good while others (dependent on cheap oil) crater. Some countries may do good while others (dependent on cheap oil) crater. Some industries may do good while others (dependent on cheap oil) crater.

Some people may do good while others (whose jobs and lifestyles are dependent on cheap oil) will crash and burn.

[diemos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')e are going to see cycles of recession interspersed with economic "recoveries" of various duration for some period into the future.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')e are going to see cycles of recession interspersed with economic "recoveries" of various duration for some period into the future.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', '
')
As long as SNAP and other welfare programs are in place to keep people fed and housed we can just keep throwing people out of work in order to reduce oil consumption for a long time .... Just a lot of people sitting around their suburban houses with nothing to do living on handouts. Peak oil is more likely to be a whimper than a bang.

[Crusty]

If this is Post Peak Oil then for me, it's definitely is doable. I'm living on about 80% less than I did in the City and the Poverty Line is so far above me I can barely see it. However, as my overheads are so low I seem to have more money than I did living a City Lifestyle.
Living in a rural village there isn't the spending opportunities. There aren't many shops, no shopping malls, no picture theaters etc etc etc. Life revolves around chatting/hanging out with mates, hanging out at the community garden, beers (home-brew) with mates around a campfire, swimming/surfing/fishing/walking at the beach. These things cost very little money. Main Topics are about vege gardens, fruit trees, water pumps, compost, surf etc. The buying of stuff, going out for dinner/lunch, going to the theatre/pictures which so dominated my time/conversations/money in the city doesn't exist out here so people spend their time on stuff that does.
Obviously you can live a frugal lifestyle in the City but the temptations were obviously too much for me, and as such, I spent so much money/debt buying stuff and keeping up with the Jones's, it kept me poor.

I believe in the slow decline we are seeing right now, things will just get harder and harder. For those who prep early, life is not only doable but kind of great. This community was hit hard by the GFC and there is not much work around anymore but as everyone is in the same boat it doesn't really matter. I can see it happening like the USSR, people poor but having their vege gardens etc and a hell of a lot of free time to chat over the back fence. Work (as in the BAU) as a necessity is something that was developed for the Industrial Revolution, life (in my opinion) is better when it's Simpler!!

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JessiRhea', 'I')t might sound crazy for someone who's never done it, but it is possible to live in a rural area without a job. People do it. And those who do it are probably in a better position to survive than those who are dependent on a stable income and grocery stores.

[Crusty]

I think life here is a lot different to the US. Unemployment benefits are livable and continue forever. If your unemployed you get a livable amount of money and if you have a job you get a lot more. In the Capital Cities life (water, sewerage, food, rates, electricity, house prices etc) is getting more and more expensive but you can avoid a lot of that living rurally. We're a lot more Socialist than the US I think. The money is shared more equitably.
We don't worship our rich who aren't as rich as the US. Whilst we still have our problems with the poor, homeless etc but we don't blame them as much and try to give them a hand-up. Our Stimulus Package went to buildings for Schools and Community Centres not the banks and tax cuts for the rich and should be paid off in a few years.

Just a different way of thinking about things. It would be interesting to hear from members how doable a Post Peak Oil Lifestyle (now) is in their country. In particular how it compares with the US (from what we've read on this forum).

I'm not bashing the US, you're a mate of Australia, always have been, and always will be. But... (in my opinion) you're kind of like that mate who always gets in a Blue at the Pub. Happens all the time and it gives us the Shits. But he's a mate so we've got to back him up.

My Opinion only.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JessiRhea', 'I')t might sound crazy for someone who's never done it, but it is possible to live in a rural area without a job. People do it. And those who do it are probably in a better position to survive than those who are dependent on a stable income and grocery stores.

[JessiRhea]

Just a little note: I said *stable* income. Of course there are expenses beyond food and water. Even if you own your own land, there's still taxes. But there's a lot of people out there who find a job to do for a couple of days or weeks, then are back to being unemployed again for another few weeks or months. But if you're able to provide for yourself and live minimally, you don't need a whole lot of money from constant employment. Also, there are various situations that might allow a person to live completely free from any expenses. For example, acting as a caretaker on someone else's land, state lands, campgrounds, etc. You don't own the land, so you don't pay the taxes on it.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')I don’t view my present choice of residence as a doom-stead, but a comfortable and enjoyable way of living my remaining days with some semblance of security in light of what‘s on the horizon.

[Crusty]

A lot of people are doing that around here now. Parking the van on a block with the owner and a few others and sharing the work and expenses. Works out pretty cheap and as the place is owned by one bloke everyone behaves and gets along as the owner can give them their marching orders. That's not really a problem as the owner misses out on the much needed money, helping hand etc and there are plenty of other blockies to park the van who would love the money/help.

Unless the person is a complete Dick of-course!!

All in all the system works pretty well with few problems, could be one of the solutions for a Post Peak Oil Lifestyle!!

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JessiRhea', '.')..a better position to survive than those who are dependent on a stable income and grocery stores.

[Puchica]

Old Pennsylvania is the first post peak oil community; the wells went dry in Slippery Rock and Quakertown a long long time ago. And we're waiting here in Allentown. I'm struggling to support myself on Social security and my garden here in Pennsylvania, farming abandoned coal land that I don't own (and don't have to pay property taxes on) It's not easy. All I can do from hard work on a couple fertile acres is extend my food budget. If SS checks stopped coming, I'd get really skinny real quick.

[Newfie]

I think that there are examples of existing Post Peak areas all around.

I'm not sure a consistent lesson can be learned from any of them.

At one time Pennsylvania was wall to wall farmland. The US NE is filling in with forests where there used to be farms. Will we go back to old style intensive farming? I don't see any sign of it yet.

Folks have left the rural areas and these populations are way down. Then again, folks have left the inner cities and there are thousands and thousands of abandoned houses in Philadelphia and other older cities. Bad neighborhoods are filled with post-peak people, if they ever had a peak at all.

Maybe that is what we should do, go into the old, run down parts of the cities to see how folks are living there now. There are victory gardens around but they don't account for much for the general population. The young turks are pretty tough guys. Most have not graduated HS but many have done time. They can be very street smart. It counts in their world. They are doing it, but rely on some outside assistance such as SS or welfare.

Newfoundland is post peak, peak Cod! The moratorium is still on and since cod was their main source of income, we they are screwed. Peak population is way down. The rural areas are depopulated. Over half the population lives in or near St. Johns. Old towns are left with old folks. The few wage earners do what little they can to make a buck. They try to get enough hours to make their quota for assistance. The papers openly talk about a bad crab season that won't let the plant workers get enough hours to qualify. They catch what cod they can in the short 'recreational' fisher. They get a share in a moose. Cut their own wood. Some have small gardens, potatoes and whatever. We were up for a funeral in November. Went by our cabin. Heard a shot. A fellows cow was down to be winter feed for the family. What income there is comes from outside the providence. Guys go to the tar sands or Banks oil rigs. They work a few weeks, come back for a while, then go off again. Those guys do OK and some have very nice houses. The occasional fisherman does alright. But many folks are on some kind of assistance.