[mos6507]

Not long ago, the irrepressable Mesuge attempted to portray GM leadership as continuing its policy of Who Killed the Electric Car, in which any dabbling with EVs and plugins was nothing but a publicity stunt, and their main money was in perpetuating gas-guzzlers and making money in ICE maintenance. This included an impassioned apologia for his soulmate, Doug Korthoff who I feel is just as much of a tinfoiler, no doubt fueled by the oft-quoted story about GM tearing up the trolleys to enable happy motoring over half a century ago.

I thought this article pretty much backs up my narrative that the automakers have, to some extent, seen the light:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Our model shows volatility from now till who knows when," says Roger Clark, senior manager of the Energy Center at General Motors (GM). "Maybe forever." Because the U.S. is no longer the dominant global consumer and there's no longer an excess global supply of oil, Clark says prices will likely remain unstable.

[JohnRM]

I just sometimes wonder who you (general 'you', not the OP) think these people are? They don't just fall out of the sky. They're Americans like you and I. They are us. So any criticism you have of them is criticism of who we all are. We're all responsible for the way things are and for our predicament.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnRM', 'I') just sometimes wonder who you (general 'you', not the OP) think these people are? They don't just fall out of the sky. They're Americans like you and I. They are us. So any criticism you have of them is criticism of who we all are. We're all responsible for the way things are and for our predicament.

[dolanbaker]

Like any other manufacturer, they are primarily interested in the bottom line, if the vehicles are selling, they'll keep on making them.

If the US public decide (forced by running costs) to choose fuel efficient cars over their heavy consumption vehicles, they'll soon be changing the products they manufacture.

Alternatively, the US government could tax the arse out of the guzzlers and implement changes that way.

[SpringCreekFarm]

They'll have to work a little harder on the usual "planned obselecence" that is built into every car because IIRC, in the movie " Who Killed the Electric Car" that was one of the reasons they "killed" them. The cars needed little or no maintenance. Car companies rake in the $$$$ from aftermarket parts sales. Not that this would be their only motivation but I think it counts.

[dolanbaker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', 'T')hey'll have to work a little harder on the usual "planned obselecence" that is built into every car because IIRC, in the movie " Who Killed the Electric Car" that was one of the reasons they "killed" them. The cars needed little or no maintenance. Car companies rake in the $$$$ from aftermarket parts sales. Not that this would be their only motivation but I think it counts.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '
')The average American doesn't jet around in private planes, own multiple vacation homes, or have tax havens scattered around the world.

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', 'T')hey'll have to work a little harder on the usual "planned obselecence" that is built into every car because IIRC, in the movie " Who Killed the Electric Car" that was one of the reasons they "killed" them. The cars needed little or no maintenance. Car companies rake in the $$$$ from aftermarket parts sales. Not that this would be their only motivation but I think it counts.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '
')The average American doesn't jet around in private planes, own multiple vacation homes, or have tax havens scattered around the world.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', ' ')But yeah, I agree conspicuous consumption is too prevalent, if that was your point.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '
')I'll have to find that movie to watch again but I'm almost certain that was one of the points someone made in the movie.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '
')Meh, some do, most don't.

[patience]

dolanbaker said:
"If the US public decide (forced by running costs) to choose fuel efficient cars over their heavy consumption vehicles, they'll soon be changing the products they manufacture."

That is true, but it takes a while to start up a new car design from scratch. What they call "all new" is NOT. The Saturn was billed as "all new" from the ground up, but it was now. It was a new "platform" (body/frame), but much of the other parts were from current production. It still took 5 years + to get it going. I worked there at the time.

It is not cheap to start up a new car, either. And carmakers are all hurting for cash. They won't bet on anything unless they can prove sixty ways that it will be profitable.

Put all that together with an uncertain market in a depression, and you get a slow response to new customer demands, lest they be fleeting and go away before a new model can hit the showroom. This means a long lag time between recognizing demand and filling it. This happened in the 1970's after the first oil crisis. It took car companies several years to get small cars tooled up, then the demand went away. That's why the Chevette died. It was a pretty good little car, but nobody wanted them when gas was plentiful again. (AT least it beat the heck out of the Vega!)

Responding to gas efficiency criticism by the head of the DOT, then CEO Pete Estes told him that they had a diesel Chevette on the test track that got 80+ MPG, but that GM COULD NOT SELL THEM. That was in 1978. People are fickle intheir demands.

Another factor about the electric car is that the general public has no comprehension of what they are, how they work, or their limitations. It is gonna be a hard sell. Add in that our grid is outdated and running at or near capacity, and now the future of nuke plants took a body blow with the Japanese mess. Where we gonna get power to charge up electric cars? I think they are a pipe dream, at least insofar as any ideas of "replacing" the gasoline powered car more or less directly.

No, I think we will see a hodge-podge of responses to our energy problems, most of them wrong-headed, and all of them too late to do much good.

[patience]

Well, the idea of a BUSINESS is to make MONEY. Carmakers have loaded up their products with all sorts of bells and whistles to get the price jacked up, and pretty well brainwashed the public into thinking it is a social necessity to have all that. That helps the bottom line. Of course, all those gadgets have a habit of breaking over time, and the car is not so cool anymore. That helps the replacement demand.

Electric cars have to be LIGHT in order to operate as efficiently as possible, which is directly in conflict with designing a "luxury" ride. This all makes the design task very problematic.

Our entire culture will have to change before anything like a really useful, practical, economical electric car can take any market share. After a few of them hit the road, customers will shun them like a plague. They will have poor acceleration, low top speed, lousy range, cost WAY too much, and need a new battery way too soon. I say thumbs down on the whole idea. Car companies are praying on this one, GM especially, since it is pretty much a "Hail Mary" pass for them. Not going anywhere anytime soon, IMHO.

Now, if they chose to bring back that 80 MPG Chevette, I might consider one.

[dolanbaker]

The chevette, was a top seller in many European countries for many years. The cost of petrol is one of the main deciding factors when choosing a car to buy here.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '
')Meh, some do, most don't.

[kiwichick]

betting on electric bikes....made in asia

[kildred590]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey'll have to work a little harder on the usual "planned obselecence" that is built into every car because IIRC, in the movie " Who Killed the Electric Car" that was one of the reasons they "killed" them. The cars needed little or no maintenance. Car companies rake in the $$$$ from aftermarket parts sales. Not that this would be their only motivation but I think it counts.

[Lore]

40K+ electric vehicles will never be purchased by a society making Wal-Mart wages.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '4')0K+ electric vehicles will never be purchased by a society making Wal-Mart wages.