[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', 'I')n the end, the only sustainable energy sources we have are captured solar in some form (panels, wind, hydro, wave, biofuels, ocean temperature differential) or geothermal. Like it or not, eventually the hydrocarbons run out, and ginning up fissionables has some serious downsides. Absent a very large leap in technology (e.g. sustainable fusion), this is how it's going to go eventually.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', 'I')n the end, the only sustainable energy sources we have are captured solar in some form (panels, wind, hydro, wave, biofuels, ocean temperature differential) or geothermal. Like it or not, eventually the hydrocarbons run out, and ginning up fissionables has some serious downsides. Absent a very large leap in technology (e.g. sustainable fusion), this is how it's going to go eventually.

[kiwichick]

http://imagesignal.commsec.com.au/asxda ... 160275.pdf

see particularly pages 13 and 14

[Graeme]

Is Thorium the Biggest Energy Breakthrough Since Fire? Possibly.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ast week, scores of thorium boosters gathered in the United Kingdom to launch a new advocacy organization, the Weinberg Foundation, which plans to push the promise of thorium nuclear energy into the mainstream political discussion of clean energy and climate change. The message they’re sending is that thorium is the anti-dote to the world’s most pressing energy and environmental challenges.

So what is the big deal about thorium? In 2006, writing in the magazine Cosmos, Tim Dean summarized perhaps the most optimistic scenario for what a Thorium-powered nuclear world would be like:

“What if we could build a nuclear reactor that offered no possibility of a meltdown, generated its power inexpensively, created no weapons-grade by-products, and burnt up existing high-level waste as well as old nuclear weapon stockpiles? And what if the waste produced by such a reactor was radioactive for a mere few hundred years rather than tens of thousands? It may sound too good to be true, but such a reactor is indeed possible, and a number of teams around the world are now working to make it a reality. What makes this incredible reactor so different is its fuel source: thorium.

A clutch of companies and countries are aggressively pursuing Dean’s dream of a thorium-powered world.

Lightbridge Corporation, a pioneering nuclear-energy start-up company based in McLean, VA, is developing the Radkowsky Thorium Reactor in collaboration with Russian researchers. In 2009, Areva, the French nuclear engineering conglomerate, recruited Lightbridge for a project assessing the use of thorium fuel in Areva’s next-generation EPR reactor, advanced class of 1,600+ MW nuclear reactors being built in Olkiluoto, Finland and Flamanville, France.

In China, the Atomic Energy of Canada Limited and a clutch of Chinese outfits began an effort in mid-2009 to use thorium as fuel in nuclear reactors in Qinshan, China.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')s Thorium the Biggest Energy Breakthrough Since Fire? Possibly.

[steam_cannon]

On the other hand...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cephalotus', '[')url=http://peakoil.com/forums/the-real-problem-with-nuclear-energy-t61230-15.html#p1053308]The REAL problem with nuclear energy[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GOT2BGREEN', 'A')ctually the only real problem with nuclear energy is the wrong fuel was used from the beginning!
...
Both Chernobyl and Fukishima would never have occurred if they were fueled with Thorium instead of Uranium. India, Norway, and China are to be commended for their wisdom in choosing Thorium for their new generation of nuclear power.

[Graeme]

Steam, Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated. Just saw this by chance, and looked for others.

Thorium Powered Cars

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hose are the only options for transportation fuels most folks know about. They haven't heard of thorium-powered cars, for which a few people are working on prototypes.

Cadillac unveiled such a concept two years ago. And now Charles Stevens of Massachusetts-based Laser Power Systems has unveiled one as well.

According to the website txchnologist.com, owned by GE:

A 250-kilowatt unit (equivalent to about 335 horsepower) weighing about 500 pounds would be small and light enough to put under the hood of a car, Stevens claims. And because a gram of thorium has the equivalent potential energy content of 7,500 gallons of gasoline, LPS calculates that using just 8 grams of thorium in the unit could power an average car for 5,000 hours, or about 300,000 miles of normal driving.

[papa moose]

He posts a nicely detailed refutation of Thorium power plants and you then need to ask what he thinks of the idea of sticking some thorium on the back seat of his VW and puttering around the autobahn at 160 kph waiting for a truck to rear end him?
I'll save you the wait, he'll be against it.

[dutchcyclist]

I dont know if its the biggest breakthrough since fire, but i do know it is the safest nuclear power option available. And as such it should be part of our solution to the peak oil problem.
But only in the form of LFTR (liquid fluoride thorium reactor) it is this save; THTR has already proven itself to be unsave.

[Cog]

I'm having a problem finding any thorium based commercial reactors in operation. Perhaps Graeme could help me out here on this miracle cure to our energy problems.

[Keith_McClary]

I don't think "Breakthrough" is a good word to describe something that will require decades of expensive R&D. Is nuclear fusion also a "Breakthrough", or assorted solar tech.

How about the Chevy Volt? I was just reading Consumer Reports, it seems you would "Breakthrough" on fuel cost vs. a Honda Civic if you drove the $40,000 Volt 1,000,000 miles.

[GoIllini]

I used to believe this Graeme, but until we find a way of storing spent fuel safely without any active intervention by civilization, I'm not as big of a fan of nuclear as I used to be.

We need to get cracking on fusion ASAP. Let's get that ITER finished and figure out a way to block the neutrons from embrittling the TOKAMAK walls.

[peripato]

I'm still banking on chocolate as a solution to our energy problems! Hmm, chocolate. Is there anything it can't do?

[Graeme]

Don't believe the spin on thorium being a greener nuclear option

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he pro-thorium lobby claim a single tonne of thorium burned in a molten salt reactor (MSR) – typically a liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) – which has liquid rather than solid fuel, can produce one gigawatt of energy. A traditional pressurised water reactor (PWR) would need to burn 250 tonnes of uranium to produce the same amount of energy.

They also produce less waste, have no weapons-grade by-products, can consume legacy plutonium stockpiles and are meltdown-proof – if the hype is to be believed.

India certainly has faith, with a burgeoning population, chronic electricity shortage, few friends on the global nuclear stage (it hasn't signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty) and the world's largest reserves of thorium. 'Green' nuclear could help defuse opposition at home (the approval of two new traditional nuclear power reactors on its west coast led to fierce protests recently) and allow it to push ahead unhindered with its stated aim of generating 270GW of energy from nuclear by 2050.

China, Russia, France and the US are also pursuing the technology, while India's department of atomic energy and the UK's Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council are jointly funding five UK research programmes into it.

There is a significant sticking point to the promotion of thorium as the 'great green hope' of clean energy production: it remains unproven on a commercial scale. While it has been around since the 1950s (and an experimental 10MW LFTR did run for five years during the 1960s at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in the US, though using uranium and plutonium as fuel) it is still a next generation nuclear technology – theoretical.

China did announce this year that it intended to develop a thorium MSR, but nuclear radiologist Peter Karamoskos, of the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons (ICAN), says the world shouldn't hold its breath.

'Without exception, [thorium reactors] have never been commercially viable, nor do any of the intended new designs even remotely seem to be viable. Like all nuclear power production they rely on extensive taxpayer subsidies; the only difference is that with thorium and other breeder reactors these are of an order of magnitude greater, which is why no government has ever continued their funding.'

[Anvil]

The problem is that fossil fuel industries are more powerful then ever and will stop at nothing to destroy cheap clean and inexpensive alternatives like Thorium. Why do you think its development was put on hold when the first reactors were laid out in the USA more than 50 years ago.

[Graeme]

India plans 'safer' nuclear plant powered by thorium

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')ndia has announced plans for a prototype nuclear power plant that uses an innovative "safer" fuel.

Officials are currently selecting a site for the reactor, which would be the first of its kind, using thorium for the bulk of its fuel instead of uranium – the fuel for conventional reactors. They plan to have the plant up and running by the end of the decade.

The development of workable and large-scale thorium reactors has for decades been a dream for nuclear engineers, while for environmentalists it has become a major hope as an alternative to fossil fuels. Proponents say the fuel has considerable advantages over uranium. Thorium is more abundant and exploiting it does not involve release of large quantities of carbon dioxide, making it less dangerous for the climate than fossil fuels like coal and oil.

In a rare interview, Ratan Kumar Sinha, the director of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) in Mumbai, told the Guardian that his team is finalising the site for construction of the new large-scale experimental reactor, while at the same time conducting "confirmatory tests" on the design.

"The basic physics and engineering of the thorium-fuelled Advanced Heavy Water Reactor (AHWR) are in place, and the design is ready," said Sinha.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '[')b]On the other hand...

[Rune]

Development of Tiny Thorium Reactors Could Wean the World Off Oil In Just Five Years

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')horium nuclei would absorb the excess neutrons, resulting in uranium-233, a fissile isotope that is not found in nature. Moderated neutrons would produce fissioned U-233, which releases enough energy to power the particle accelerator, plus an excess that can drive a power plant. Rubbia says a fistful of thorium could light up London for a week.

The idea needs refining, but is so promising that at least one private firm is getting involved. The Norwegian firm Aker Solutions bought Rubbia's patent for this thorium fuel cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator.
The Telegraph says this $1.8 billion (£1.2 billion) project could lead to a network of tiny underground nuclear reactors, producing about 600 MW each. Their wee size would negate the enormous security apparatus required of full-size nuclear power plants.

[Synapsid]

There is still a proliferation problem: U233 can be used in a bomb just as U235 can. The US tried that in the 1950s but went with U235, partly because decay chains from Th232 led, in addition to U233, to daughter products, including U232, that were intense gamma emitters and the radiation caused premature ignition and reduced yield.

In the 6 December issue of Nature four British nuclear engineers describe methods for removing protactinium 233, the parent of U233, from the contaminating U232 (much easier than trying to separate the two uranium isotopes). The Pa233 will then decay into pure U233. The methods described are standard ones.

[Rune]

Sure. But the idea as stated in th article was that the low levels of plutonium created would allow the US to skirt the NPT -- which otherwise might prohibit private development -- a political consideration.

Thorium has a lot of vocal proponents.