[americandream]

lol Rockdock. You still believe Western figures despite the financial cockup? How quaintly naive.

[Beery]

The speculation, optimistic, pessimistic and everywhere in between, is all well and good. But what we need are facts. When (and how) will we know that Saudi has, or has not, increased production?

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'l')ol Rockdock. You still believe Western figures despite the financial cockup? How quaintly naive.

[Cid_Yama]

What 3rd party auditors? You are full of it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ome members - especially those who counted on their sovereignty for resource nationalism - considered reserves a state secret.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat 3rd party auditors? You are full of it.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'l')ol Rockdock. You still believe Western figures despite the financial cockup? How quaintly naive.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')&P were experts in rating and yet their figures were lamentable. From my experience in audting, I'ld say much of what is out there is a mixture of good and bloody useless. It may well be that there is lots of oil out there or we may well be close to running out. However, depending on Western figures is just about as useless as having no figures.

I don't know how you get round this problem as often enough it is caused by laziness and just not going that extra mile when they have said they have. (I'm inclined to think that the stuff's running out as the rumour mill has the markets spooked and I tend to give some weight to rumour where it is being repeated often enough, especially if it the sort of stuff that runs counter to the prevailing tide.)

[Beery]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', '.').. an example being Twilight in the Desert which was rife with theories based on a misunderstanding of the SPE literature.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')&P were experts in rating and yet their figures were lamentable. From my experience in audting, I'ld say much of what is out there is a mixture of good and bloody useless. It may well be that there is lots of oil out there or we may well be close to running out. However, depending on Western figures is just about as useless as having no figures.

I don't know how you get round this problem as often enough it is caused by laziness and just not going that extra mile when they have said they have. (I'm inclined to think that the stuff's running out as the rumour mill has the markets spooked and I tend to give some weight to rumour where it is being repeated often enough, especially if it the sort of stuff that runs counter to the prevailing tide.)

[Shar_Lamagne]

I'm pretty sure the United States Securities Exchange Commision has no jurisdiction in Canada.

This thread, if I'm not mistaken, is about Saudi Arabia, and other OPEC nations lying about their reserves, which seems pretty obvious.

The recent claims by other nations such as Canada, including oil sands and other noncoventional sources, that are not comparable in either EROEI or speed of extraction, as if they are somehow equivalent to conventional oil is scamming the numbers. A blatant attempt to hide a decline in usable oil reserves.

These unconventional sources cannot replace declining conventional sources. Period. Pretending like they can is a scam.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')OL. What a telling way to cast doubt on what is probably one of the most persuasive PO books out there. 'an example being...' - as if it's some sort of self-published tinfoil hat brigade book. Nice - especially since the author is now dead and can't answer such backstabs even if he wanted to.

Can you, perhaps, give us an example of your wisdom and tell us exactly which theories were based on which misunderstandings? It's just that your post is an example of the kind of opportunistic hack criticism we see a lot here - a vague attack on an author's work, with no specifics. If you could elaborate, maybe your posts would be taken a little more seriously.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ''')m pretty sure the United States Securities Exchange Commision has no jurisdiction in Canada.

This thread, if I'm not mistaken, is about Saudi Arabia, and other OPEC nations lying about their reserves, which seems pretty obvious.

The recent claims by other nations such as Canada, including oil sands and other noncoventional sources, that are not comparable in either EROEI or speed of extraction, as if they are somehow equivalent to conventional oil is scamming the numbers. A blatant attempt to hide a decline in usable oil reserves.

These unconventional sources cannot replace declining conventional sources. Period. Pretending like they can is a scam.

[Shar_Lamagne]

You really are a shill aren't you. A barrel of unconventional oil IS NOT equivalent to a barrel of conventional oil in several respects.

Extraction rate, weight, amount of processing necessary, how much energy is required to extract and process compared to the amount of energy actually obtained, amount of water used in extraction, sulphur content, etc.

You are so full of it, seems no matter what subject you are talking about.

And by the way, this thread is about OPEC members lying about their reserves, and you keep trying to change the subject.

[kiwichick]

+1 sl

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou really are a shill aren't you. A barrel of unconventional oil IS NOT equivalent to a barrel of conventional oil in several respects.

Extraction rate, weight, amount of processing necessary, how much energy is required to extract and process compared to the amount of energy actually obtained, amount of water used in extraction, sulphur content, etc.

You are so full of it, seems no matter what subject you are talking about.

And by the way, this thread is about OPEC members lying about their reserves, and you keep trying to change the subject.

[Shar_Lamagne]

Saying EROEI doesn't matter is the same as saying it doesn't matter if it takes more energy to extract and process, than what you get back out of what you just extracted. Which of course is total nonsense.

You are free to twist it in your own mind that it's all the same, but it's not.

We are not replacing the oil we are extracting with new equivalent finds. What came out so far was the easy to extract, easy to process stuff.

What's left is the non-liquid, dirty, difficult, water intensive, expensive to extract stuff that does not have an equivalent EROEI. Because the extraction rate is so slow it won't be able to keep up with demand. And with the water crisis we are about to face, you won't have access to the water needed to extract it.

Now back to the topic. OPEC has lied about the remaining reserves for decades. They have used enhanced extraction techniques that have maintained high rates of flow at the expense of longevity. Same as at Cantarell.

When they decline, it will not be a slow decline, but like Cantarell, a fast crash in extraction rates. And that is about to happen.

Nothing will be able to replace the loss of the supergiants. Nothing.

[kildred590]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s to Western figures again you do not understand how SEC reporting works. A reserve report has to be submitted each year and it requires 90% of the reserves having been audited by a third party that does this for a living (eg. Degolyer and Mcnaughton, Ryder Scott, Sproule etc). The new regulations note that the third party auditor is liable for errors that might result in material change to a companies valuation. There are huge fines and jail time involved. The big auditing firms in my experience now error on the side of pessimism when it comes to assigning proven reserves. The process isn't even close to the issue with over leveraging in the capital markets, not really sure what you are blathering on about

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')erformance audits don't measure the actual reserves ; they principally are concerned with procedures and accounts related to their estimation.
A company which wants to lie about reserves can easily do so.

Enron passed all its audits (Financial and performance) with flying colours.

Auditors are only liable to company shareholders, not third parties like investors. And if the company produces false data they are not liable.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')aying EROEI doesn't matter is the same as saying it doesn't matter if it takes more energy to extract and process, than what you get back out of what you just extracted. Which of course is total nonsense.

You are free to twist it in your own mind that it's all the same, but it's not.

[Cid_Yama]

You never did answer my question. Do you get paid extra for shilling against both Peak Oil and Climate Change? I would think if you do both you should get extra.

Especially since it forces you to go on record as believing nonsense. I can't imagine any amount of money that could induce someone to present themselves as a liar or sh*t for brains over and over again.