Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Timo » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 16:32:59

Also, the Wisconsin Democratic Senators leaving the state is the same tactic as the Republican fillibuster in the US Senate. State senate's don't operate under the same rules, so the only option the minority party has is to get out of town to prevent any vote on any matter. No on'e complaining about Republica filibusters, are they?
Timo
 

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 16:45:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he most recent extension of the Bush tax cuts was passed in special session by the last Congress which was dominated and controlled by DEMOCRATS and then signed into law by Obama, a DEMOCRATIC president.

Blaming Republicans for what Obama and the democrats do is silly.

The Bush tax cuts were really O's fault.
Try to make up better Newspeak than that!
:lol:
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 16:56:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 't')here were a hell of a lot of union members who put Reagan in office



Reagan was a strongly anti-union POTUS, even though he had been president of SAG for years. 8O
Ludi
 

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Livewire713 » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 17:01:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he most recent extension of the Bush tax cuts was passed in special session by the last Congress which was dominated and controlled by DEMOCRATS and then signed into law by Obama, a DEMOCRATIC president.

Blaming Republicans for what Obama and the democrats do is silly.

The Bush tax cuts were really O's fault.
Try to make up better Newspeak than that!
:lol:


Plantagenet is the Spinmaster!
User avatar
Livewire713
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby gollum » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 17:23:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 't')here were a hell of a lot of union members who put Reagan in office



Reagan was a strongly anti-union POTUS, even though he had been president of SAG for years. 8O

I agree he was, but that wasn't the perception at the time.
gollum
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Thu 11 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Wyoming
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Timo » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 17:35:52

Getting this discussion, riveting as it is, back to the topic of peak oil, it was the Bush tax cuts, coupled with two wars that went completely unpaid for through the Bush Presidency that caused the severity of our current debt crisis. Sure, Obama has needed to add a bit to that debt, but he most certainly did not create the debt to begin with. Neither did Bush, for that matter, be he sure did add a lot more to it than Obama has. The reason Obama has had to add more to it is to stimulate the economy which, in part, has been dragged down on a GLOBAL scale due to several factors, including the realization of the coming scarcity of cheap oil. Peak oil isn't Bush's fault, nor Obama's fault. Republican's insist on gaining power by creating blame games, while Democrats try to no avail to undue the damage done to our country each time Republicans get control.
Timo
 

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 17:54:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Livewire713', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he most recent extension of the Bush tax cuts was passed in special session by the last Congress which was dominated and controlled by DEMOCRATS and then signed into law by Obama, a DEMOCRATIC president.

Blaming Republicans for what Obama and the democrats do is silly.

The Bush tax cuts were really O's fault.


So when Obama came out in support of extending the Bush tax cuts and then signed the bill extending the Bush tax cuts into law it wasn't Obama's fault?

Why isn't Obama responsible for his own actions? :roll:
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 18:00:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', ' ')the facts don't support your claims.

The most recent extension of the Bush tax cuts was passed in special session by the last Congress which was dominated and controlled by DEMOCRATS and then signed into law by Obama, a DEMOCRATIC president.

Blaming Republicans for what Obama and the democrats do is silly.



Republican senators were going to filibuster the bill unless the cuts to the top 1% were included


Again, you've got the facts wrong.

The Bush tax cuts were going to AUTOMATICALLY expire at the end of 2010. Obama and the Pelosi-Reid democrat-controlled congress passed a new bill to extend them. Then Obama signed it into law.

There was no filibuster or even a threat of a filibuster. Think about it---If the Republicans had filibustered the bill to extend the Bush tax cuts then they wouldn't have been extended.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Timo » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 18:04:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', ' ')the facts don't support your claims.

The most recent extension of the Bush tax cuts was passed in special session by the last Congress which was dominated and controlled by DEMOCRATS and then signed into law by Obama, a DEMOCRATIC president.

Blaming Republicans for what Obama and the democrats do is silly.



Republican senators were going to filibuster the bill unless the cuts to the top 1% were included


Again, you've got the facts wrong.

The Bush tax cuts were going to AUTOMATICALLY expire at the end of 2010. Obama and the Pelosi-Reid democrat-controlled congress passed a new bill to extend them. Then Obama signed it into law.

There was no filibuster or even a threat of a filibuster. Think about it---If the Republicans had filibustered the bill to extend the Bush tax cuts then they wouldn't have been extended.


The Republicans would have filibustered the bill if the Bush tax cuts were not in the bill. That bill was essential for some other reason, and was not a stand alone extension of the Bush tax cuts.

Blame, blame, blame. It's always someone else's fault and no one can ever take responsibility for anything. It's simpler to maintain control over everyone if everything in someone else's fault. This trait is the terminal flaw in the human "civilized" species.
Timo
 
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 18:13:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')hy isn't Obama responsible for his own actions? :roll:

Turns out O is a whimp just like most dems.

Maybe that isn't quite fair, dems are a coalition of the open minded, from gays to fems to treehuggers to progressives to whatever other minority you can name so they I guess it's natural they aren't as cohesive as the predominately white, middle aged, upper income 'pub bankrolled by ... well, you know.

He sure isn't left, there isn't a left here, I mean there wasn't a left here, I'm not sure the honorable governor of WI might not have given the real left some wiggle room.

Wobble room? :lol:
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 18:23:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '
')The Republicans would have filibustered the bill if the Bush tax cuts were not in the bill. That bill was essential for some other reason, and was not a stand alone extension of the Bush tax cuts.



You don't understand how our government works. The DEMOCRATS controlled both the house and the Senate. Every single bill that the Congress moved was one that either written or approved by the democratic leadership in the Congress.

If Pelosi and Reid and the democrats who controlled the last Congress didn't want the Bush tax cut extension to be passed, then they wouldn't have put it on the agenda for consideration and they would have voted it down instead of voting for its passage. Dems had LARGE majorities in both houses ... remember?

If Obama didn't want the Bush tax cuts to be extended, then he would've vetoed the bill instead of signing it into law.

Why not hold dems responsible for their hypocrisy on this issue instead of pretending they are blameless?
Last edited by Plantagenet on Mon 21 Feb 2011, 18:40:33, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 18:39:20

So where did the Bush tax cut extension bill come from? Who wrote it?

Well looky looky. Harry Reid, the DEMOCRATIC leader of the Senate, is the author of the Bush tax cut extension bill.

Harry Reid (Dem-NV) authored the bill that extended the Bush tax cuts in 2010

Face facts: Harry Reid (DEM) wrote the bill that extended the Bush tax cuts, it then passed the democratically controlled House and Senate, and Obama (DEM) signed it into law.
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 19:08:54

Geez, Plant, it ain't brain surgery, it was a deal: the 'pubs would vote to extend unemployment insurance benefits for working people only if the dems voted to extend the tax cuts on for the 1%.

Besides, if the dems hadn't of done it in the lame duck the 'pubs could well have made them permanent in the new congress. Why do you think your boss was complaining?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sarah-pa ... d=12418084
Or maybe she wasn't, hard to tell
http://www.rttnews.com/Content/TopStori ... Id=1509863

I can never figure out why you act so coy, and with such a handle!
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 19:26:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'i')f the dems hadn't of done it in the lame duck the 'pubs could well have made them permanent in the new congress.


Hi Pops:

Thank you for being honest enough to acknowledge that the dems passed the Bush tax cuts extensions in the last Congress.

Thats my point---the dems are complicit in this foolishness.

However, the dems didn't do it because they feared Republicans making the tax cuts "permanent in the new Congress." There's no way the Republicans could unilaterally do that without democratic support.

Even though the pubs took the House, the dems still control the Senate and Obama is still the president. Just as there was no way the Republicans could've unilaterally extended the Bush tax cuts without democrats in the last Congress agreeing to extend the Bush tax cuts, there is no way the Republicans could unilaterally make the Bush tax cuts permanent in this new Congress without the democrats and Obama agreeing to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Pops » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 19:53:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')here's no way the Republicans could unilaterally do that without democratic support.

Yea, I guess you're right.

Which brings us back to my original point:

'pubs represent the rich and dems represent everyone else.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 20:15:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')here's no way the Republicans could unilaterally do that without democratic support.

Yea, I guess you're right.

Which brings us back to my original point:

'pubs represent the rich and dems represent everyone else.

Thats the way it used to be, but now the truth is that both parties have been bought by the corporations.
When the revolution comes, we will need 535 lamposts to do the job right - maybe 534 if we exempt Ron Paul.
"It don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more"
John Prine
Hawkcreek
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Washington State
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 20:23:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')'pubs represent the rich and dems represent everyone else.


Oh, I get it.

TO bring this back to Wisconsin, now I understand why the dems want good pensions and healthcare for government workers, even if the state is driven into bankruptcy by the 3.5 BILLION dollar deficit. Its not utter incompetence---its just their way of representing everyone.

Image

By the way, good to see you posting again, Pops. Hope you are feeling great! Your point of view was much missed.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 21:46:26

I'm pretty sure Bernie Sanders hasn't been bought by the corporations.
Ludi
 

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 22:24:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m pretty sure Bernie Sanders hasn't been bought by the corporations.

Ok, we may need a few less lamp posts than I said. But most of them need to go.
"It don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more"
John Prine
Hawkcreek
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Washington State
Top

Re: Wisconsin protests: Egypt in America?

Unread postby eric_b » Mon 21 Feb 2011, 22:38:50

Here's a small gallery (8 images) I put together of the budget protests:
http://www.fractalfreak.com/wx/BlackThursday/index.html
User avatar
eric_b
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Fri 14 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Location: us

PreviousNext

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests