[Cog]

Yes, the middle class has woken up. That is why you had solid majorities for Republicans in Wisconsin. People are tired of those jerks in the government unions having it all their own way and not paying their way.

Governor Walker is doing exactly what the people elected him to do. That being to have a balanced budget and bust up union control over the state budget.

All the crying from those "poor" teachers is music to my ears and the whining here at this board is a sweet lullabye.

[PrestonSturges]

Maybe we can get Wisconsin to send you some cheese to go with your whine.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')he question is, will the Kochs follow the Mein Kampf script of rolling out brown shirts like Mubarack's thugs? That would not be the Tea Party, who are old and flabby, it would be ringers in the form of private security, prison guards on their day off, moonlighting cops from out of state.....

I'm sure there are right wingers fantasizing about another Greensboro Massacre, but in that case the police were actively conspiring with the KKK to expose protesters to attack by Klan gunmen.

[PrestonSturges]

From Mother Jones
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ccording to Wisconsin campaign finance filings, Walker's gubernatorial campaign received $43,000 from the Koch Industries PAC during the 2010 election. That donation was his campaign's second-highest, behind $43,125 in contributions from housing and realtor groups in Wisconsin. The Koch's PAC also helped Walker via a familiar and much-used political maneuver designed to allow donors to skirt campaign finance limits. The PAC gave $1 million to the Republican Governors Association, which in turn spent $65,000 on independent expenditures to support Walker. The RGA also spent a whopping $3.4 million on TV ads and mailers attacking Walker's opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett. Walker ended up beating Barrett by 5 points. The Koch money, no doubt, helped greatly

[Queaks]

I tend to be conservative and think the state being fiscally responsible is a very good thing. However, one thing about all this bothers me. As a businessman I enter into contracts with clients. I expect those contracts to be honored during their time period. What is the labor contract that the state of Wisconsin has with its employees and their various unions? When do those expire? Why could the Governor not get the same results without abrogating the contracts?

After all if the contracts are like in most states, even if he could not change the pay (including health care co-pays and pension funding) during the contract, he certainly has the right to lay individuals off due to financial needs of the state. Why did he not just lay off until the same cost savings were in effect, and then leave it to the unions to have the choice of co-pays and increased pension funding (it was always part of their compensation, so in a sense they always did "pay"), or fewer workers employed? Wouldn't that have met the financial needs and left the contract in place instead of getting the legislature to externally change the agreed on contract terms? Anyone know?

I have no issue with his goals, but I think the methods could have been better?

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Queaks', 'I') tend to be conservative and think the state being fiscally responsible is a very good thing. However, one thing about all this bothers me. As a businessman I enter into contracts with clients. I expect those contracts to be honored during their time period. What is the labor contract that the state of Wisconsin has with its employees and their various unions? When do those expire? Why could the Governor not get the same results without abrogating the contracts?

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Queaks', '
')
snip
........... he certainly has the right to lay individuals off due to financial needs of the state. Why did he not just lay off until the same cost savings were in effect, and then leave it to the unions to have the choice of co-pays and increased pension funding (it was always part of their compensation, so in a sense they always did "pay"), or fewer workers employed? Wouldn't that have met the financial needs and left the contract in place instead of getting the legislature to externally change the agreed on contract terms? Anyone know?

I have no issue with his goals, but I think the methods could have been better?

[PrestonSturges]

Yeah I think he made one strategic mistake:

He's telling these people to go home so he can get busy cutting their salaries 10%, because if they don't, they might get their pay docked.

Do the math - these people can get docked 2 weeks pay and still come out ahead if the bill is defeated. So they might as well picket through the end of the month.

If he'd laid people off, there wouldn't be any incentive for everyone to protest.

He did something really stupid.

[Cloud9]

The problem is declining revenues. The last branch of government to be cannibalized will be the bureaucracy itself. Services are already declining. Next to go will be the service providers. We either take pay cuts or we cut positions. Police, fire and teachers might as well get ready.

[Cog]

Unions always end up killing the golden goose. Right to Work would be a good change for Wisconsin as it is most states where its in place.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '(')The Nazi party) must declare war against the Marxist Trades Union, not only as an organization but, above all, as an idea.

Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

[gollum]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'U')nions always end up killing the golden goose. Right to Work would be a good change for Wisconsin as it is most states where its in place.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'U')nions always end up killing the golden goose. Right to Work would be a good change for Wisconsin as it is most states where its in place.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'U')nions always end up killing the golden goose. Right to Work would be a good change for Wisconsin as it is most states where its in place.

[PrestonSturges]

Is it true that Walker failed to submit a budget?

[Tyler_JC]

There is a BIG difference between a private sector union and a public sector union.

In a private sector union, the demands of the workers are counter-balanced by the demands of the shareholders. If the unions are too greedy, the company goes bust and the workers end up losing their jobs. (Think Chrysler)

There are no counter-balances in the public sector. If the public employee unions demand more benefits, the only thing that stops them from getting those benefits is the state legislature. And it's not like a pay hike for public employees comes out of the state senators pockets.

The result is perennial tax hikes to support a bloated public sector. The only thing that can stop the public employee unions from completely bankrupting the state is a taxpayers revolt. That's what happened in Wisconsin. Taxpayers finally realized that their interests no longer aligned with the interests of the Teachers' Unions.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'T')here is a BIG difference between a private sector union and a public sector union.
.....
The result is perennial tax hikes to support a bloated public sector. The only thing that can stop the public employee unions from completely bankrupting the state is a taxpayers revolt. That's what happened in Wisconsin. Taxpayers finally realized that their interests no longer aligned with the interests of the Teachers' Unions.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '
')The union has offered concessions to meet Walkers financial goals, but he refused..

[PrestonSturges]

Looks like the Tea Party was outnumbered about 30:1 today despite the corporate sponsored buses.

It's easy to have 100 people crowd around a camera held at belt buckle level, then have Michelle Bachmann say you drew a "eleventy jillion" tea partiers, but it's a little harder to pull that scam when you have two competing groups.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '
')Texas isn't bust. Its got an untapped $9.4 billion rainy day fund sitting there ready to be used if Texas needs to. Governor Perry is doing the right thing by slashing spending in every possible place