[mos6507]

There's two ways to spin this, but either peak oil is a way to bring people together who have other agendas who can then work together OR peak oil is a magnet for people with ulterior motives who are just opportunistically looking for doom to advance their agenda.

Me being the negative person I am, tend to believe the latter rather than the former.

It's a real chicken and the egg debate.

Do people come here because peak oil is some sort of trojan horse in which one -ism or the next (libertarianism being the dominant one) sees how it can be used to fruther their ideology?

What tends to happen, though, is the pub effect, which is once you get a bunch of people with the same ideology, they start to drive the discussion around some side topic that may have little or no direct relationship with what they're really supposed to be there for.

That's why I posted the "Excess baggage" image on the post about Building 7 (a Godwin's Law term if ever there was one).

Petty politics is another, in which people who I guess are bored enough about doom not to talk about it anymore, pass the time by hitting F5 over their favorite pundit (Zerohedge or FoxNews or whatever) like a mouse hitting the button on a food dispenser and then dumping the scandal of the moment here for everyone to snicker about how Obama is such a terrible president.

Big f-n deal. How is any elected official going to put more water into the aquifers, more topsoil into the heartland, less nitrogen runoff into the oceans, and on and on and on. Yet there is this continued conscious lie that people carry around with them that they can feel better as long as they have some everpresent scandal to bitch and moan about. It's like the digital equivalent of a punching bag or having a pillow to scream into at night. It's a joke.

Still, if you look at the posting history of a lot of people here, you'll see that they have an agenda. They want to influence people towards some end, and it rarely has anything to do with doom or doomer prep. So you've got Planty who has no purpose here other than to lower Obama's approval ratings. Or you have V-M who has no agenda other than to convince us that humans got their start via genetic tampering by aliens. Or you have the marijuana guy who thinks all the world's problems can be solved with "hemp".

What I really hate more than anything else is interfacing with shallow one-trick ponies who have latched onto some simplistic "answer" and who can't seem to think big-picture. It's fine when these people fire off their neurons in isolation, but when they push people's general anti-establishment bent it creates the equivalent of The Wave at a baseball park. It's something that seems to have no purpose, but everybody jumps on the bandwagon anyway almost out of a reflex.

If you've read through one "government is bad" echo chamber thread, you've read them all. Regardless of whether you agree or not, it's dull beyond belief. I'm amazed that people still go for these empty calories, like it actually accomplishes anything.

Anyway, that's the end of my hysterical rant. Have fun posting photoshops of Obama holding his phone upside down while the Holocene extinction continues apace.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')How is any elected official going to put more water into the aquifers, more topsoil into the heartland, less nitrogen runoff into the oceans, and on and on and on.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')here's two ways to spin this, but either peak oil is a way to bring people together who have other agendas who can then work together OR peak oil is a magnet for people with ulterior motives who are just opportunistically looking for doom to advance their agenda.

[basil_hayden]

Concerned about the Holocene extinction? That's your first problem.

Speaking of ulterior motives, yours seems to involve looking for someone to attack over anything at any time. And if that opportunity does not present itself, you discuss the discussing of the discussion, as you are in this thread.

What exactly is your freaking point? Nevermind, I don't want to know, just keep it in your own head and away from the rest of us, 'cause it's pointless.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '
')Speaking of ulterior motives, yours seems to involve looking for someone to attack

[Ludi]

My ulterior motive is to get people interested in permaculture, but I post about other things so as not to be entirely boring.

http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums#1

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '
')Speaking of ulterior motives, yours seems to involve looking for someone to attack

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')How is any elected official going to put more water into the aquifers, more topsoil into the heartland, less nitrogen runoff into the oceans, and on and on and on.

[careinke]

Well, I come here to hear all the different sides of the issues. Its fascinating to see people how some people can believe in finite resources, yet at the same time want continued growth. Or people who know that over-consumption is one of our main problems, yet rail that we need to tax income instead of consumption, because consumption taxes are "regressive".

I also promote Libertarianism, Permaculture, and Pot Legalization whenever the opportunity arises.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'W')ell, I come here to hear all the different sides of the issues. Its fascinating to see people how some people can believe in finite resources, yet at the same time want continued growth. Or people who know that over-consumption is one of our main problems, yet rail that we need to tax income instead of consumption, because consumption taxes are "regressive".

I also promote Libertarianism, Permaculture, and Pot Legalization whenever the opportunity arises.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I came hear to learn about investment opportunities related to oil. Clearly SOMETHING seemed to have changed since about 2005 and I wanted some diverse input.

Certainly found LOTS of ideas along that line and much more here.

Aside from the thread hijacking that is so prevalent, I'm not clear on why there is a problem. Mos. If you, for example, think that say ... 911 conspiracy theories are a complete waste of time (as I do), you can completely ignore that stuff.

OTOH, if you find stuff that you didn't expect that gives you new (potentially useful) ideas or understanding of the (often bizarre) way people think and express themselves - you can get plenty of that here.

For example, I'm still not convinced about short term "geologic peak oil". (I sure as HELL now believe in the end of CHEAP oil in the medium term though -- as well as in general resource depletion and its nasty effects).

SO WHAT? Different strokes for different personalities and mentalities. As long as the overall effect is to make people aware that BAU is NOT a good or even close to sustainable thing -- I vote for that being a net benefit to humanity and the planet.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', ' ') Its fascinating to see people how some people can believe in finite resources, yet at the same time want continued growth. Or people who know that over-consumption is one of our main problems, yet rail that we need to tax income instead of consumption, because consumption taxes are "regressive".

[vtsnowedin]

Mos you think too much. You need to place both hands on the edge of your computer desk and push yourself away. Then get up and DO something. Rip out a room to the studs, insulate and new gyp board, mud, paint and paper then refinish the floor.If that's not doable then volunteer at Habitat for humanity or similar. spend some days pounding nails and carrying 2x6s. The break will really clear your mind.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '
')Why is what I believe, or anyone else for that matter, important to you anyhow?

[SeaGypsy]

+ 1 Carinke.
I'm here because I am intelectually committed to peak oil and prefer the company of people of the same capacity. I like all the diversity and polarity of opinions, the self contradictions, warts and all. It's all very human.

I understand your frustration Mos, but I don't think you are going to find the answers you seek in a conceptual understanding, more in actualising your dream. I sincerely wish you find a path to your permie paradise, where you and your daughter and olds can live out your days in peace and harmony with nature. That's what it seems to boil down to.

We all want our dreams to come true. First we have to make them attainable. Most people never win lotto. Self actualisation begins with self determination. Once a person has attained self determination there is an inner drive which mandates commitment of time, thought and energy. When I find myself stuck, I ask myself, "What am I holding onto here? Why am I holding on? What can I let go of?" It's the cosmic law of allotment and sacrifice; give to receive, bend to not break.

It is impossible to take positive action when bogged in a mire of negativity, nomatter how 'realistic' the basis thereof. This is why I appreciate characters like Xeno, Oily, Carl, Graeme; not because I am a cornucopian but because they simply lighten up the tension in the room. We need to give ourselves some headspace and physical space from doom, it's not healthy to obsess.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I')t is impossible to take positive action when bogged in a mire of negativity, nomatter how 'realistic' the basis thereof. This is why I appreciate characters like Xeno, Oily, Carl, Graeme; not because I am a cornucopian but because they simply lighten up the tension in the room. We need to give ourselves some headspace and physical space from doom, it's not healthy to obsess.