[OilyMon]

Hybrids, IMO are a very promising new technology, and are going to factor into a solution if one is to be found. I don't tink dismissing anything outright is a positive, constructive approach to anything, let alone an issue as important as the one currently under discussion. Any solution or technological switch is going to cost the world much of the already dwindling supply of oil, and hybrids are a good start.

[DriveElectric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sgs-Cruz', ' ')Last I checked, most people didn't want a population crash, did they? Did they? Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking billions of people dying would be a bad thing...

[Triffin]

Just give us a Plug-in EV drivetrain
capable of a 200 mpc range and you'll
see gasoline/diesel use drop by 75% or more

Slap on whatever 'body' style that suits
your fancy and off you go ..

Do a "Google" on "Solectria Sunrise"



Triff ..

[0mar]

It will make ZERO impact. Replacing all the cars in the US with hybrids today will only buy 2-5 years of extra cheap oil. The US uses about 14 mb d of petroleum for transportation. If we cut that in half due to hybrid use, there are 7 mbd of extra oil on the market. That 7mbd will be eaten up in 2-5 years due to increasing demand.

Like I said in my previous post, if we found 1 trillion more barrels tomorrow, peak oil will only be 17 or so years off.

[0mar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DriveElectric', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sgs-Cruz', ' ')Last I checked, most people didn't want a population crash, did they? Did they? Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking billions of people dying would be a bad thing...

[lorenzo]

It's a guestimation, but I think it's not incorrect to say that for each hybrid sold, about 1000 old classic dirty polluting combustion cars are sold on this planet.

Hybrids are a fine technology, nobody disputes this. What's more, advanced (bio)diesel hybrids will even be more efficient and cleaner than hydrogen fuel cell cars, if you look at the entire lifecycle of the car. So that's not the point.

The point is that it's way too little, way too late. There's no question about this.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sgs-Cruz', 'Y')ou know, just as Bigg doesn't need to hype every small efficiency increase as the one that's going to save the world, you guys don't need to say that every new technology is absolutely useless. Each one may make a 1% difference, useless on its own, but when you name 50 or 100 new technologies or methods, each of which saves only 1%, you've made a serious reduction.

And Lorenzo, as a scholar of peak oil, you should know that while 0.05% seems very small, the exponential function is very powerful. It doesn't take too many years of 960% sales increases to make 0.05% a very big percentage of the auto market. (Granted, that kind of growth won't last, but even at one tenth that, that's still a very steep exponential curve).

We on this site should be applauding every new technology and making sure it's adopted as fast and as far as possible. Last I checked, most people didn't want a population crash, did they? Did they? Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking billions of people dying would be a bad thing...

[clv101]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'A')ll I'm saying is that you don't seem to have a real understanding of matters of scale.

[arretium]

I'd like to see diesel-electric hybrids. Diesel cars already outperform Hybrids for fuel efficiency. If the speed of diesel starting can be ramped up, diesel-electric hybrids could be a possibility. In that case we'd see 80-90 mpg vehicles.

The biggest problem I see with hybrids are the batteries. Batteries have to be replaced and they are not cheap. I'd seriously consider a hybrid, even more so a diesel hybrid, but the problem of batteries still weighs in my mind. I just wish I could find a diesel minivan and car here in US.

[Sgs-Cruz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', 'I')t will make ZERO impact. Replacing all the cars in the US with hybrids today will only buy 2-5 years of extra cheap oil. The US uses about 14 mb d of petroleum for transportation. If we cut that in half due to hybrid use, there are 7 mbd of extra oil on the market. That 7mbd will be eaten up in 2-5 years due to increasing demand.

Like I said in my previous post, if we found 1 trillion more barrels tomorrow, peak oil will only be 17 or so years off.

[DriveElectric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sgs-Cruz', '
')If you can crack free from the theoretical world of Internet forums for a second, try to think about the ramifications of what you're wishing for.

[smiley]

There are about 10 shiny new Priuses in the parking lot at my work. The company decided to ditch some of the old company cars and change them to hybrids.

I think they fell for the high-tech, environmentally conscious image of these things. I guess we will see a lot of hybrids in the coming years if they get properly hyped.

But I wonder whether it will make such an impact on the overall fuel consumption. In terms of fuel consumption the hybrid is not really a step forward. After all it still is less efficient than a 1939 Volkswagen Beetle.

[Sgs-Cruz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'B')ut I wonder whether it will make such an impact on the overall fuel consumption. In terms of fuel consumption the hybrid is not really a step forward. After all it still is less efficient than a 1939 Volkswagen Beetle.

[0mar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DriveElectric', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sgs-Cruz', '
')If you can crack free from the theoretical world of Internet forums for a second, try to think about the ramifications of what you're wishing for.

[BiGG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'I')t's a guestimation, but I think it's not incorrect to say that for each hybrid sold, about 1000 old classic dirty polluting combustion cars are sold on this planet.

Hybrids are a fine technology, nobody disputes this. What's more, advanced (bio)diesel hybrids will even be more efficient and cleaner than hydrogen fuel cell cars, if you look at the entire lifecycle of the car. So that's not the point.

The point is that it's way too little, way too late. There's no question about this.

[BiGG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clv101', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'A')ll I'm saying is that you don't seem to have a real understanding of matters of scale.

[No-Oil]

The real pronblems with hybrids of whatever kind & any other alternative power vehicles, is that they are all sold or advertised to support the "business as usual" scenario. Buy one of these & save the planet & still enjoy the same "western" lifestyle as before ! They do not work as replacement vehicles for existing serviceable vehicles.

The energy reduction answer is very very simple, if it takes 35 barrels of oil to build a car (an average figure) & that car is used to travels X miles a year, then it is simpler to reduce the mileage by 50% & thus effectively double the mpg/per year to save energy. Rather than to waste another 35 barrels of oil to buy a new hybrid (or whatever) then do the same mileage per year as you did in your old car. Basically this does not pan out econimically or environmentally.

I have priced up hybrids as replacements & I can get 5 years worth of fuel at my current mileage out of my car for the difference in cost required to "change" to a hybrid. I can extend this to 7-9years fuel allowing for fuel price increase, by reducing my annual mileage by 50%. I can't reduce my work mileage much because I live close to work, but I can reduce my fuel consumption, by cycling in good weather & using a 110mpg scooter when the weather is bad, thus I can knock about 25% off my annual fuel useage without resorting to extremes. The other 15% will come from not making non essential journeys in the car.

If you are buying a your first vehicle, then hybrids & other economical vehicles should be promoted or made compulsory. You can't miss a V8 (or high power) if you have never had one !

[0mar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BiGG', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clv101', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'A')ll I'm saying is that you don't seem to have a real understanding of matters of scale.

[Starvid]

I don't think it is very strange that most of the doomsters on this forum are Americans. You seem to think that peak oil is mainly a car problem, and since you can't live without you cars everyone is going to die and the world is going to end. Hybrid cars, electric cars, biodiesel cars, there is no end to it. But peak oil is not a car problem, not an energy problem or a even a liquid fuel problem. It is a transportation problem. And since transportation equals cars in their world, the American doomster brain short circuits.

Have you people never heard of trams or bikes? Of trains? The American obsession with the car means you ignore all the alternatives, alternatives that are used on a daily basis in Europe. It's sad what has become of the land of the iron horse.

[RiverRat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '
')Have you people never heard of trams or bikes? Of trains? The American obsession with the car means you ignore all the alternatives, alternatives that are used on a daily basis in Europe. It's sad what has become of the land of the iron horse.