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Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby vision-master » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:01:02

Shorty, what have you been doing here, Fuel prices go up, almost everything else goes up too. :badgrin:
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Sixstrings » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:02:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '[')b]The jobless and the poor have already stopped consuming, maybe some couldn't even consume in the first place.


You're forgetting the four million folks drawing unemployment checks who are about to get a big fat Tea Party lump of coal in their Christmas stockings. You think taking all that money out of circulation will have no effect on the service and consumption economy?
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:05:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.'). saving whatever domestic oil we can is SMART in terms of peak oil mitigation. We should continue to use foreign oil right up until the whole world is falling apart and oil can't be found anywhere.. then that would be the time to tap our last reserves.


Thats why we need an intelligent energy policy that takes the peak oil problem into consideration instead of the policy flip flops we've gotten from the Obama administration.

It takes about 10 YEARS to develop an offshore oil field. The idea that we can close down our offshore oil industry now only to suddenly call on them to rehire the workers and rebuild the rigs and spring to action to "tap" our last reserves years from now when the whole world is falling apart isn't going to work.

We need to start the process of "tapping" our last reserves at least 10 years BEFORE the whole world falls apart. Seeing as how oil peaked in late 2005 and the global economy collapsed as excess production capacity was used up, it might be a good idea to start now.
Last edited by Plantagenet on Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:09:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby vision-master » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:07:40

Planeted, you should know 'off shore drilling' ain't gonna cut it.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Cog » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:09:45

The unemployed will get their extensions right after the Senate Democrats give the Senate Republicans the Bush tax cuts that they are after. Then we can go back to focusing on the real doom of peak oil.

Sorry, there will be no legislation that will solve that one. :twisted:
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby vision-master » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:15:36

It's only Illuminati notes....... :-D
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Ludi » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:27:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')As for far as declining resources, there's nobody to blame other than human nature -- just like any other species that's too successful, has no natural predators, and so over-populates beyond what its environment can support.



Except not all human societies do that, as I've pointed out ad nauseum. :roll: It's not "human nature" to overpopulate beyond what the environment can support. If it were, there would be no examples of human societies which did not do that. On the contrary, there are many examples of such societies. Ours is not one of them.

You can ignore anthropology all you want, but it doesn't make it true. :roll:
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Blacksmith » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:27:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'C')rap. Anyone who has been here even a short time undestands that domestic offshore drilling is a distraction, that these reserves amount to little.

Your partisan blinders have kept your education at a remedial level. If you plan on ever graduating from PO Kindergarden you'd better drop your tired agenda.


Absolutely correct, the problem is not offshore oil or the lack thereof. The problem is the FED printing money, driving up inflation to protect the banksters. :twisted:
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:36:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', ' ')the problem is not offshore oil or the lack thereof. The problem is the FED printing money, driving up inflation to protect the banksters.


Follow the money.

The FED buys government bonds with the newly printed money, allowing Obama to continue to spend money we don't have and create more huge deficits.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Ludi » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:38:48

Wikileaks. :)
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Xenophobe » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:45:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', ' ')Fuel prices go up, almost everything else goes up too. :badgrin:


Its called inflation. It happens when fuel prices go down as well. For example, nominal gasoline prices decreased from 1981 to 1999, real gasoline prices stayed about the same and guess what? Things didn't stay the same price or get cheaper as a result.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Xenophobe » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:49:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '[')b]The jobless and the poor have already stopped consuming, maybe some couldn't even consume in the first place.


You're forgetting the four million folks drawing unemployment checks who are about to get a big fat Tea Party lump of coal in their Christmas stockings. You think taking all that money out of circulation will have no effect on the service and consumption economy?


It depends on whether or not the result of the US ceasing to subsidize irrational job expectations causes these people to understand that selling predatory loans to the gullible isn't a job skill they can go out and get a 6 figure salary for anymore, causing them to actually get a job. The proceeds from which they will continue to spend the same as they were when it was the government they were receiving the dole from.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Xenophobe » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:51:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')he unemployed will get their extensions right after the Senate Democrats give the Senate Republicans the Bush tax cuts that they are after. Then we can go back to focusing on the real doom of peak oil.

Sorry, there will be no legislation that will solve that one. :twisted:


Good. All Congress can do is screw up a perfectly reasonable transition.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby vtsnowedin » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:55:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '=')"Xenophobe .....The jobless and the poor have already stopped consuming, maybe some couldn't even consume in the first place. ....

8O Hows that again. As far as I know the only way to stop consuming is to die preferably without an elaborate funeral or a protracted probate fight by your heirs.
The poor may not consume at the American standard and they may be subsisting on welfare checks and and charity but as long as they breath they consume.
I still chuckle about a segment Dan Rather did for CBS. One of the annual hunger in America pieces you get whenever there is a Republican in the White house. The interview E was a worker at a food pantry for the poor. The woman was at least an axe handle and a half across the rear-end and she was having trouble walking between the rows of canned goods. If your going to make a point about hunger anywhere at least interview somebody that has missed enough meals to look hungry.
I don't know if $90/bl oil will put the economy into a downward spiral but $143/bl oil sure did. We will be back up to that price soon enough and rich or poor it will effect us all.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Xenophobe » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 21:32:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '=')"Xenophobe .....The jobless and the poor have already stopped consuming, maybe some couldn't even consume in the first place. ....

8O Hows that again. As far as I know the only way to stop consuming is to die preferably without an elaborate funeral or a protracted probate fight by your heirs.


Currently, the jobless and poor are doing something, obviously. It isn't buying new cars or eating out at steakhouses very often, but certainly they require some small amount of gasoline for the car they do have, some bread and peanut butter, they pay some rent somewhere, etc etc.

Substitute a job for the government benefits and they'll probably spend money on about the same things.

No big shift is going to happen whether or not they get their monthly stipend from the government, or actually forcing themselves to get up in the morning and to go DO something.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')I don't know if $90/bl oil will put the economy into a downward spiral but $143/bl oil sure did. We will be back up to that price soon enough and rich or poor it will effect us all.


Lets get the sequencing right, lest we fall into the basic peaker stunt of making stuff up as we go along. Recession first.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/01/news/ec ... /index.htm

Price spike 2nd.

http://richardheinberg.com/207-peak-oil-day

And sure, not only WILL it effect us all, it already HAS. Certainly my habits change based on fuel price, why shouldn't everyone elses, albeit at different price points?
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Ludi » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 21:34:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', ' ')actually forcing themselves to get up in the morning and to go DO something.



What do you suggest they DO, actually?

:?: :?: :?:
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby SeaGypsy » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 22:01:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', ' ')actually forcing themselves to get up in the morning and to go DO something.



What do you suggest they DO, actually?

:?: :?: :?:


Armageddon should create a lot of short term employment before eliminating the need.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Sixstrings » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 22:06:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')t takes about 10 YEARS to develop an offshore oil field. The idea that we can close down our offshore oil industry now only to suddenly call on them to rehire the workers and rebuild the rigs and spring to action to "tap" our last reserves years from now when the whole world is falling apart isn't going to work.


Plant that just doesn't make sense to say since oil is peaking, we need to get out there right and drill up every last bit of what's left.

Don't worry about it taking ten years to develop an offshore field.. when TS really HTF and worldwide oil is just about gone then the government's going to need whatever drops are left right here at home. When oil becomes a rationed precious commodity, they'll get it out out of the ground regardless of cost.

In view of peak oil, we must preserve whatever untapped reserves are left, for future generations.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Sixstrings » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 22:11:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'E')xcept not all human societies do that, as I've pointed out ad nauseum. :roll: It's not "human nature" to overpopulate beyond what the environment can support. If it were, there would be no examples of human societies which did not do that. On the contrary, there are many examples of such societies.


There are about two billion Indian and Chinese peasants who disagree with you. They want as much of the American Dream (TM) as they can get, resource depletion be damned.

I challenge you to find one Chinese or Indian national who cares about peak oil. There are billions of them, surely someone must know one. I bet nobody can find one, and Chinese folks who read this forum won't even post except for WOW Gold spam -- because they don't care about resource depletion, they want cars and shopping malls and air conditioning and McDonalds.
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Re: Jobless America Can't Survive $90 Oil

Postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 22:16:56

The Chinese care a great deal about peak oil.

Why do you think they are buying commodities and oil and building wind farms and building a navy and making territorial claims on every island and every inch of sea floor (and all the oil underneath it) over millions of km2 off Chinas coast and doing everything they can do to get their society as ready as possible for the future?
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