[dissident]

The financial crisis has a silver lining: the EUSSR project may unravel. How did it go from EC to EU spontaneously? Getting rid of trade barriers is not logically equivalent to setting up another level of government.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'F')rom government website. "To the end of 2008 Ireland has received approximately €17 billion in Structural & Cohesion Funds support since joining the E.U. in 1973." Thats about what we are giving to the bailout from the Pension Reserve Fund and is only 3 years interest payments on the bailout.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', 'H')ow did it go from EC to EU spontaneously? Getting rid of trade barriers is not logically equivalent to setting up another level of government.

[Madpaddy]

Sixstrings,

Point taken about the unsustainability of basing our economy on multinationals. I think Ireland should get back to the basic things we really have going for us i.e. quality food production in an unpolluted environment, eco-tourism and green energy production and export (wind and tidal).

[americandream]

At least the Supreme Soviets represented workers. This lot are so deep in the pockets of capitalists, they've lost all notion of what daylight looks like. There is nothing more foul than a dictatorship dedicated to lining the pockets of a fat and obese nobility and bourgeoisie class.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'S')ixstrings,

Point taken about the unsustainability of basing our economy on multinationals. I think Ireland should get back to the basic things we really have going for us i.e. quality food production in an unpolluted environment, eco-tourism and green energy production and export (wind and tidal).

[Plantagenet]

I don't see how the enormous real estate bubble in Ireland, and the unsustainable government deficits in Greece, Portugal, and Italy are the fault of the EU. Greece lied to the EU for years about the size of its deficit, Spain lied about employment and deficit spending, and while the Irish didn't run a deficit, the Irish did nothing themselves to deflate the huge real estate bubble that occurred in their country.

I find it curious that the Irish (and the Greeks, Spanish, Portuguese, etc.) are so angry at the EU and Germany for bailing them out.

If the Irish don't want the bailout, then they should tell their government not to sign the agreement and not to take the bailout money from the EU. If the Irish want to deal with the problems themselves then they should elect a new government that will withdraw from the EU and reissue their own currency and deal with their financial issues internally.

If the Irish aren't willing to withdraw from the EU, then they are stuck with the EU and its rules.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'S')ixstrings,

Point taken about the unsustainability of basing our economy on multinationals. I think Ireland should get back to the basic things we really have going for us i.e. quality food production in an unpolluted environment, eco-tourism and green energy production and export (wind and tidal).

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I') don't see how the enormous real estate bubble in Ireland, and the unsustainable government deficits in Greece, Portugal, and Italy are the fault of the EU. Greece lied to the EU for years about the size of its deficit, Spain lied about employment and deficit spending, and while the Irish didn't run a deficit, the Irish did nothing themselves to deflate the huge real estate bubble that occurred in their country.

I find it curious that the Irish (and the Greeks, Spanish, Portuguese, etc.) are so angry at the EU and Germany for bailing them out.

If the Irish don't want the bailout, then they should tell their government not to sign the agreement and not to take the bailout money from the EU. If the Irish want to deal with the problems themselves then they should elect a new government that will withdraw from the EU and reissue their own currency and deal with their financial issues internally.

If the Irish aren't willing to withdraw from the EU, then they are stuck with the EU and its rules.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', ' ')theft of ... dentures ...

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', ' ')theft of ... dentures ...

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'S')o to the extent that the average Irishman is pissed off at the machinations of Berlin and Paris, they have good reason to. Of course, you being a corporatist flunkie, nothing less than the theft of your dentures will suffice to turn you round.

[Cid_Yama]

The last thing they want is for nations to default. Since the money was created out of thin air, they'ld rather just give you more. It's the power over you that your debt gives them that they want.

What's necessary is to call the game. Since the money is fictitious, the debt is too.

Time for a clean slate and tell these people to bugger off.

[Plantagenet]

The Irish Government just accepted the 113 BILLION DOLLAR bailout from the EU

EU bails out Ireland

Not only that....the agreement stipulates that the Irish people will pay back the money, and the EU banks and the private bondholders of the banks won't lose a penny.

This sure doesn't seem like a very fair deal for the Irish people, since it isn't actually their debt. WHy should the Irish people get stuck paying for the folly of the banks?

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'S')o to the extent that the average Irishman is pissed off at the machinations of Berlin and Paris, they have good reason to. Of course, you being a corporatist flunkie, nothing less than the theft of your dentures will suffice to turn you round.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')This sure doesn't seem like a very fair deal for the Irish people, since it isn't actually their debt. WHy should the Irish people get stuck paying for the folly of the banks?

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'S')o to the extent that the average Irishman is pissed off at the machinations of Berlin and Paris, they have good reason to. Of course, you being a corporatist flunkie, nothing less than the theft of your dentures will suffice to turn you round.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'S')orry to say it in such form, but cultural and ethnic background of Europe is such that attempting American style federal governing is a plainly nonsensical, Utopian idea.

[Madpaddy]

Don't worry folks. We will not be paying back all that money - believe me. New government to be elected in early 2011 and they will default within 18 months.

[Cabrone]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'D')on't worry folks. We will not be paying back all that money - believe me. New government to be elected in early 2011 and they will default within 18 months.