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Doomers become Revolutionaries

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 10:57:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', ' ')The attitudes of people are changing as seen in the Tea Party "rebellion" for example.



What "Tea Party rebellion"? I haven't seen any Tea Party rebellion. Can you give some examples of Tea Party rebelling anywhere?

Hey, I'm one of the folks on here who promotes rebellion pretty much constantly. Been promoting rebellion for about ten years now on various messageboards. Go for it, I say! Withdraw your support from systems you don't agree with and put your support into systems you prefer.

I keep calling for a general strike but I guess it's just too hard. Not sure why, all you have to do is not go to work, not shop, just hang out with friends and family and mutually support each other. Rebellion accomplished.

But folks seem to get all confused and think they need to riot in order to rebel. Got to wave some guns around. I guess they like being shot at ala Ruby Ridge. Being a martyr doesn't help anything or anyone. It doesn't change anything in any meaningful way. Why not just walk away from the system you don't like? Walking away is easy, you can take baby steps, make incremental changes. Or, if you like being dramatic, you can change your life overnight and drop out of the system entirely. Think the system would survive if a significant number of the society decided they didn't approve of it and wanted something different and simply stopped supporting it? I think TPTB would notice if everyone just started staying home every day.

<<<<not waving any guns
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Mesuge » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 11:22:38

How exactly one promotes walking away from a system on 7bln. occupied homo-ape planet is beyond me. In any case this is a ridiculously useless thread, started because of some strange reasoning/motivation by demonstrably inferior brainmuscles than ToeCutter's, enough said.
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 11:28:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', 'H')ow exactly one promotes walking away from a system on 7bln. homo-ape planet is beyond me.



Since you don't understand what I'm talking about, of course it is beyond you. :) You don't even know what I mean by "walk away" and "support the systems you prefer." And you're not really interested, are you? :?:
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 11:37:42

Jefferson talks about British propaganda, Shays' Rebellion, his general low opinion of the rebels.

It shows a lot that the Tea Party crowd that they use this quote where Jefferson calls them a bunch of dumbasses and they just don't get it. These are not the people you want deciding what's constitutional, and if I were a person trying to undermine the Constitution, I'd finance a bunch of yobs like the Tea Party to yell about the "Constitution" all the time as a way of undermining it and preventing serious discussion.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.').....British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. yet where does this anarchy exist? where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? and can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. they were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. god forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. the people cannot be all, & always, well informed. the part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive; if they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. we have had 13. states independant 11. years. there has been one rebellion. that comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. what country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure.
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby ian807 » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 12:23:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', 'H')ow exactly one promotes walking away from a system on 7bln. occupied homo-ape planet is beyond me. In any case this is a ridiculously useless thread, started because of some strange reasoning/motivation by demonstrably inferior brainmuscles than ToeCutter's, enough said.

Mesuge, given your obvious challenges, let me give you some explicit examples.

1) Get off the electrical grid to the extent that you can. Set up some alternate power systems. You'll need, at minimum, enough to run a refrigerator, a radio, some lights at night and some 12-volt power tools.

2) Secure your own water supply. Dig a well or set up a sand & gravel filter to purify nonpotable water. Don't depend on centralized systems.

3) Use a septic tank, not city sewage. Learn about its maintenance.

4) Grow, or gather, or otherwise acquire some of your own food. Fishing, hunting, trapping, gardening, raising rabbits or chickens all will give you some food independence.

5) Obfuscate your identity on the net. Use different logins and passwords.

6) Obfuscate your identity to manufacturers. Don't use grocery cards. If you can, avoid credit cards altogether. Ditto for debit cards. Don't buy, or use a cell phone. If it's electronic, you're being tracked by someone, somewhere.

7) Learn some basic medical skills. Getting on the medical radar can mean no insurance for anything that might arguably be a related condition. Insurance is for dire emergencies only.

8 ) Minimize your automobile use. If you can wangle a car that doesn't depend on electronics to function, you're less dependent on the network of auto manufacturers.

9) No banks. Free your money. There are other ways of storing wealth in a secure fashion.

Bottom line? We have become dependent on centralized services in the name of "efficiency." Coincidentally (ahem), this has made the population much easier to control. The last thing any set of rulers wants is for their subjects to have stable, sustainable, decentralized means of support. Such people are difficult to govern, particularly if they come equipped with small arms.
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 12:51:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '&')quot;For the few who have yet to be infected by war hysteria, it's time to start thinking about revolution!"
--Eastbay


How is this "violent".



It's not.

We envision a revolution in thinking. I envision a revolution for peace and a revolution against the liberals perverted craving for killing and endless war. It can't be that hard to do. :)
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 12:57:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Republican Senator Lindsey Graham calls for pre-emptive strike to 'neuter' Iran

Lindsey Graham, who represents South Carolina, told surprised attendees at the Halifax International Security Forum that an attack could cripple Iran's nuclear programme and armed forces.
He said that although international sanctions were beginning to work, President Barack Obama should make it 'abundantly clear' that 'all options are on the table'.

Let's not lose track of which organization is actually violent. It's quite ridiculous for any pray-for-war Republicrat to use the term "violent" as a pejorative, when they have shown time and time again their willingness commit mass murder.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 13:06:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')It's not.

We envision a revolution in thinking.



I envision a revolution in thinking AND acting. Our actions need to follow our thinking. Usually there's a time-lag between thinking and acting. Sometimes a long one (points to own self).

<<<<<< slow
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 13:17:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')It's not.

We envision a revolution in thinking.



I envision a revolution in thinking AND acting. Our actions need to follow our thinking. Usually there's a time-lag between thinking and acting. Sometimes a long one (points to own self).

<<<<<< slow



I agree, Ludi. Thoughts create speech which generates actions. What we're doing here is exercising speech, or words only. A movement away from mass killing starts with a revolutionary change in thinking causing a movement featuring words of peace. If this does not result in a movement away from war it is meaningless. I fully realize we're outnumbered 99 to 1. But a revolution has to start somewhere.
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 14:38:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', ' ')I fully realize we're outnumbered 99 to 1. But a revolution has to start somewhere.

If revolutionaries are outnumbered by 99 to 1, then there is no prospect of success.

Mos is actually right in one particular respect.

Once system is crumbling, TPTB are likely to get very impatient.
They will most unlikely tolerate any dissent.
Hence our closet revolutionaries from this and similar sites may end up on receiving end of this lack of tolerance.
You need something like 80 to 20 in your favor to even think about winning.
With 99 to 1 in opposite direction you will only become to be a convenient scapegoat.

Terminally wounded but still alive US is going to be an extremely dangerous puppy to play with... particularly to its own citizens...
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What can you do......

Unread postby Whitefang » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 14:47:03

About our serious situation, imminent collapse of everything we take for granted.
Not a thing except prepare, make your body strong, save energy, and find peace in face of armaggeddon.
Too late to protest, change the current mob world wide. :-D

Possible to make it to a better location for the fight to come, the hardest thing to defend your homestead... to keep out of reach of the hungry and remaining armed groups, special forces and the like.
No need to worry about the fate of our masters, they will get what one deserves, possibly flee and die oversea, seems the bushes found a location in South America, Uruguay or so.
My local lowland royalty opted to marry Argentina, learn Spanish only to die there, if they even make it out alive from the nightmare of panic and idiocy when the curtain falls and power is down.

Most important to keep calm, then warm. :-D
Indeed find good source of water and food a last resort.
Seems that North is the way to go, best option on the table, Sweden...BC Canada.....let the storm pass and return to set up local something with survivors willing to cope together facing the terror and wonder of being human in a frank and free way.Inshallah....... :-D
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Oakley » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 14:54:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', ' ')The attitudes of people are changing as seen in the Tea Party "rebellion" for example.



What "Tea Party rebellion"? I haven't seen any Tea Party rebellion. Can you give some examples of Tea Party rebelling anywhere?

Hey, I'm one of the folks on here who promotes rebellion pretty much constantly. Been promoting rebellion for about ten years now on various messageboards. Go for it, I say! Withdraw your support from systems you don't agree with and put your support into systems you prefer.



Perhaps this quote of John Adams will help,
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')The Revolution was effected before the War commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments of their duties and obligations. This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution.”


I see the current Tea Party "rebellion" as a parallel to that which preceded the violence of 1775. Of course you have not seen any violence yet because we are still in the peaceful stages of the current revolution, and these eruptions do not happen instantaneously. But the Tea Party is rebelling against the status quo, just as you personally advocate rebelling, only your motivation and end goal is different. They and you both want change, but they want less government while I judge from your posts that you want more, but different government.

I doubt seriously that anyone is today plotting violent actions in some secret meetings. I doubt that there was much, if any, such plotting preceding 1775. Nevertheless, the forces in motion will bring about some resolution to the progressively more deleterious and intolerable effect of government on citizens today.

If the patterns of history repeat, we are still five to ten years away from nation threatening violence. We are by the estimation of some analysts yet in the early stages of the current economic collapse. Peak oil doomers see all sorts of economic deterioration coming from the lack of adequate energy to fuel the industrial age upon which we are dependent for the necessities of life. Conditions are ripening.

And yes, the Tea Party movement is a rebellion, even if you do not see it.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence" Thomas H Huxley
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 16:29:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', ' ')I judge from your posts that you want more, but different government.



I judge that you judge 100% erroneously. :)

I want less but very different government.
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby the48thronin » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 18:34:28

Malthusian Riders Member!

Courtesy and Courage Sincerity and Self-control Honor and Loyalty a Code to Live By!
What do the miners do when the canary dies? EVACUATE THE MINE not argue about the color of it's feathers or buy a parrot instead.

Where is my pitchfork and torch? I need them for a visit to the castle!
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Oakley » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 19:49:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', 'F')or you mos...
http://www.infragard.net/


Didn't Hitler have a program where he even got children to turn in their parents?

And yes, during the American Revolution and Civil War, there was plenty of division and many people died or spent prison time for being accused of disloyalty. These fights are not just citizens against government, but citizen against citizen and even brother against brother.
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 20:08:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', '
')Didn't Hitler have a program where he even got children to turn in their parents?


Virtually every totalitarian government tries to indoctrinate the children, including having them turn in their own parents.

The Communists in Russia even had a nation-wide "cult of personality" to honor one child who they said informed on his parents

Pavlik Morozov...celebrated as a good communist for informing on his own parents to the secret police
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 20:17:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')They will most unlikely tolerate any dissent.


Dissent is not the same thing as explaining how the entire democratic system is broken and inciting a revolution for regime change rather than voting or running for office. I don't think that falls under the realm of freedom of speech.

You want to talk about gradual nonviolent change, that's what Transition Town stuff is all about. I can get behind that. You want to write stuff that is seething with anger, exaggerated sense of persecution and moral outrage, obviously I'm going to infer that you're one step away from going Travis Bickle, which is not something I can get behind. I just don't like the Testosterone approach to crises. I think that's the firmament upon which zombies spawn. I'll be on the defensive end of that sort of chaos, but I'm not going to join on any storming of the Bastille, and if you want to say I'm a wimp for that, I'm proud to take the abuse.

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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 20:24:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')I don't think that falls under the realm of freedom of speech.



Do you think these posts fall under the category of "advocacy of illegal action"?

Do you really think these posts pose a hazard of "inciting or producing imminent lawless action" and "are likely to incite or produce such action" ?

Personally I doubt they will incite any action whatsoever, lawless or lawful. :|

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/First_amendment
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 20:36:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', '
')I doubt seriously that anyone is today plotting violent actions in some secret meetings. I doubt that there was much, if any, such plotting preceding 1775. Nevertheless, the forces in motion will bring about some resolution to the progressively more deleterious and intolerable effect of government on citizens today.

Conditions are ripening.

And yes, the Tea Party movement is a rebellion, even if you do not see it.
Yeah, the problem is, whose side are they on?

In 1776, Americans were revolting for an elected government, against being dominated by corporations, and against the tax funded Church of England that acted as a local government and ended every service with praise for the King.

The Tea Party seems to have no problem with getting its marching orders from corporations, it has an alternate history that wants to put religion back into government like we had under England.

The part about the Tea Party hating elections is nonstop to the point of being comical, with Joe Miller slinging the one-size-fits-all accusations of fraud and intimidation against the Republicans. If you want to read 50 pages of similar cynicism about elections, just go read Mein Kampf, it was an essential part of undermining democracy in Germany.

If the Tea Party represents a revolution, it seems more like British Loyalists/Monarchists trying to make a comeback.
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Re: Doomers become Revolutionaries

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 14 Nov 2010, 20:42:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')Do you think these posts fall under the category of "advocacy of illegal action"?


Yes. It is also alarming that some of these posts are coming from a moderator, so that this sort of rhetoric has no control-valve.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')Do you really think these posts pose a hazard of "inciting or producing imminent lawless action" and "are likely to incite or produce such action" ?


The pattern with people going off their rocker is that the people around them never thought they'd act on their radical talk. But everyone has a breaking point. The "anger" phase of Kübler-Ross is a powerful force. The people who go postal never recognize the fact that they are kind of being swept away by their emotions. It's this gradual transformation from someone who can fit peacefully into society into a radical determined to make a dramatic statement that takes lives, absolutely convinced that they are justified in doing so.

It also bothers me that when the "they'll never do anything" argument comes up, that it almost sounds like a dare rather than a call for calm.
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