[Cid_Yama]

Straw man. I guess when you have nothing else...

From BP to Love Canal, from hydrofracking to water quality to food and drug manufacturing, we need protection from corporate excesses which requires tight regulation.

When you are trying to push your less government meme, you are aguing for industry to regulate itself.

That's the last thing that needs to happen. We need tough regulations, and strong oversight to ensure those regulations are enforced.

THAT is the role of government. That is where I want my tax dollars to go.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he role of government is to protect the people from rampant corporate excesses

[Cid_Yama]

Regulation creates jobs. If they want to pollute our shores and waterways, or give us bad food or bad drugs, they are more than welcome to go elsewhere.

We do not want them or need them.

Their place will be taken by someone else willing to give us what we want and need.

Your argument is rediculous.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'R')egulation creates jobs. If they want to pollute our shores and waterways, or give us bad food or bad drugs, they are more than welcome to go elsewhere.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'R')egulation creates jobs.

[Cid_Yama]

Nice misleading chart. If you actually zoom in and look at the dates, Obama entered office at the peak.

And of course, we all know that it was the financial deregulation of the Bush administration that led to the Wall St collapse DURING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

Just another good example of right-wing deception, because they can't win on the truth.

Regulation creates jobs, because regulators are needed to conduct inspections, levy fines, monitor compliance. In many cases new procedures or new equipment are necessary to bring about compliance, creating new industry.

Any companies not wanting to comply will close and be replaced by companies that meet the regulations, because the market will still exist.

Proper regulation will prevent competition from overseas because they will also have to comply with our regulations or not have access to our markets.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'N')ice misleading chart. If you actually zoom in an look at the dates, Obama entered office at the peak.

[Cid_Yama]

I know quite well what the chart shows. But you used it with the hope that others would not look so closely. Since the democratic house majority was meaningless during the final 2 years of the Bush Administration, the chart itself is meaningless, except for it's deception value.

With imports subject to the same regulations, outsourcing becomes less profitable, since cheaper wages would be offset by shipping costs.

Since the market will still exist, companies will fill the void. Regulation does not make business unprofitable, just less so compared to companies allowed to freely pollute and sell us dangerous or unhealthy products. But there will still be profit to be made. If large corporations do not want to fill the void small business will. As a matter of fact, it will make room for small business.

Your argument does not make sense.

We do NOT have to sacrifice health and environmental regulation for jobs.

That is a false argument.

[Cid_Yama]

Republicans just recently blocked legislation that would have blocked subsidies to companies who outsource. It is very clear what side of the fence they are on.

[mattduke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'L')ess Government is a corporatist euphemism for Less Regulation for industry.

The Less Government argument is nonsense. It's purpose is to hide the real argument, less regulation vs more regulation.

The role of government is to protect the people from rampant corporate excesses.

We need more regulation not less. Which should be obvious to anyone.

[PrestonSturges]

Looks like Rand Paul may have a deposition in his future, because clearly his campaign knew who assaulted that woman and chose to not help the police.

Clearly Rand knows the people who assaulted the woman, clearly the people around Rand knew who assaulted the woman. Clearly, the Rand Paul campaign was concealing their identities in acompletely pointless way.

Rand, ever the lose mouthed man-child had to comment on the issue this morning, so he can't laim to have been known nothing.

Rand's whole life has been under Ron Paul's umbrella. Rand was probably waiting for daddy to make the whole thing go away.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')Lets make a deal, you can keep your uterus, and I can keep my money.

[Oakley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'U')ndermining the people's faith in government is essential for a totalitarian takeover. Although this is not exclusively a Fascist tactic, Hitler spent years ridiculing representative government, elections, and his opponents (mainly the Social Democrats).

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'U')ndermining the people's faith in government is essential for a totalitarian takeover. Although this is not exclusively a Fascist tactic, Hitler spent years ridiculing representative government, elections, and his opponents (mainly the Social Democrats).

[Shar_Lamagne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'L')ess Government is a corporatist euphemism for Less Regulation for industry.

The Less Government argument is nonsense. It's purpose is to hide the real argument, less regulation vs more regulation.

The role of government is to protect the people from rampant corporate excesses.

We need more regulation not less. Which should be obvious to anyone.

[smithjackson]

Hello

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'L')ooks like Rand Paul may have a deposition in his future, because clearly his campaign knew who assaulted that woman and chose to not help the police.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '
')There have been a few of these private security/citizen assaults recently. How does a libertarian think they should be handled ? Maybe they would say that the girl that had her head stomped could have avoided a concussion and sprained shoulder if only she had been carrying a handgun and been trained to use it ?

[Serial_Worrier]

Obviously Cid believes government creates wealth rather then destroying it. So Cid - tell me who is responsible for the first & second Industrial Revolutions?

[Cid_Yama]

I would say Adam Smith is the father of modern Capitalism. But, he included certain disclaimers.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shar_Lamagne', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ociety, however, cannot subsist among those who are at all times ready to hurt and injure one another. The moment that injury begins, the moment that mutual resentment and animosity take place, all the bands of it are broke asunder, and the different members of which it consisted are, as it were, dissipated and scattered abroad by the violence and opposition of their discordant affections. If there is any society among robbers and murderers, they must at least, according to the trite observation, abstain from robbing and murdering one another. Beneficence, therefore, is less essential to the existence of society than justice. Society may subsist, though not in the most comfortable state, without beneficence; but the prevalence of injustice must utterly destroy it. (TMS II.ii.3.3)

What chiefly enrages us against the man who injures or insults us, is the little account which he seems to make of us, the unreasonable preference which he gives to himself above us, and that absurd self-love, by which he seems to imagine, that other people may be sacrificed at any time, to his conveniency or his humour. The glaring impropriety of this conduct, the gross insolence and injustice which it seems to involve in it, often shock and exasperate us more than all the mischief which we have suffered. To bring him back to a more just sense of what is due to other people, to make him sensible of what he owes us, and of the wrong that he has done to us, is frequently the principal end proposed in our revenge, which is always imperfect when it cannot accomplish this.(TMS II.iii.1.5)

No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, cloath and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, cloathed and lodged. (WN I.viii.36).

An educated populace can, to a degree, regulate political actors who may wish to take advantage of inequalities for their own benefit. The uneducated are easily misled and suffer for it. The more the ‘inferior ranks of people’ are instructed, Smith says,

the less liable they are to the delusions of enthusiasm and superstition, which among ignorant nations, frequently occasion the most dreadful disorder. An instructed and intelligent people besides are always more decent and orderly than an ignorant and stupid one. They feel themselves, each individually, more respectable, and more likely to obtain the respect of their lawful superiors, and they are therefore more disposed to respect those superiors. They are more disposed to examine, and more capable of seeing through, the interested complaints of faction and sedition, and they are, upon that account, less apt to be misled into any wanton or unnecessary opposition to the measures of government. In free countries, where the safety of government depends very much upon the favourable judgment which the people may form of its conduct, it must surely be of the highest importance that they should not be disposed to judge rashly or capriciously concerning it.(WN V.i.f.61)