[Sixstrings]

This thread is a chance for folks to play devil's advocate with their own opinions / choices in life. A chance to admit you do see that other side of an argument that you usually rail against.

For me, the big one is globalism, offshoring, immigration, etc. I rant about it all the time on this forum, and i really do believe the US is going down the tubes because of it.

However.. I can't deny that globalism has done great things for all of us. Something as simple as a cell phone; if we'd always been a protectionist country, with everyone making great union wages, then we might today in 2010 still be stuck with Ma Bell -- paying long distance just to call one county over.

But because of globalism, with all that cheap labor and innovative forces, you can buy a cell phone without a contract at Target for $20. They're now common in the poorest of nations, places that never had landlines in the first place.

Another self-contradiction would be as much as I go on about globalism, I'm actually very interested in other cultures. I come on here and talk about "buying American," and yet I mostly watch foreign films. Been getting into Chinese movies lately; without globalism, that country would still be a communist backwater and never produce anything worth watching.

So in many different ways globalism has made my life more interesting and enjoyable, I can't deny that, so therein lies the contradiction with my political views.

I guess what it comes down to is that globalism is great for everyone but those who lose their livelihood and can't find another. The truth is, it's a very thorny issue -- yes, we want a strong country here at home but is it morally right for our success to be at the expense of the third world having a chance to fully develop and make their contributions to the world?

So that's my self-contradiction, what's yours?

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')he truth is, it's a very thorny issue -- yes, we want a strong country here at home but is it morally right for our success to be at the expense of the third world having a chance to fully develop and make their contributions to the world?

So that's my self-contradiction, what's yours?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'B')ut as you noted above, if you had protectionism you'd be paying several times more than the rest of the world for US made cellphones, etc. You wouldn't be exporting much at those prices. How would you afford oil imports?

[Ludi]

Recognizing that civilization isn't the greatest way to live but I depend on it. I've posted a bunch about this over the years so I won't go into details here.

[Pops]

I preach preemptive frugality, learning to enjoy a lower-energy life with less stuff - yet I'm a covetous fool; I gather stuff around me like a stonefly nymph! Tools are my main weakness; wood working tools especially but any tool really; from kitchen appliances to software. I don't think I'm a "hoarder" - I don't have stacks of empty tuna cans anyway, but I do have a stack of used window sash, some rolls of old barbed wire, lots of lumber and a veritable hardware store in my shop... you get the idea.

I guess in the same vein, or not, I'm quite the Luddite - yet I'm an early adopter of tech! I admire and respect people with manual skills and I've never trusted the great interdependent web of modernity but I paid $650 for my first CD player at a time when I had to explain to my friends what "digital" recording even meant; my first cell phone was the size of a carry-on suitcase; I started doing print graphics on a computer back when the nearest service bureau (where, in the day, digital files were "imaged" onto photographic film to be used in the traditional offset printing process) was in San Francisco, 100 miles away from my home - oh yea, that was before Fed Ex - I drove it many times

[efarmer]

I grew up applying microprocessors from the first humble units in middle 1970's and would like a world that is high tech and humble village tech as a hybrid around myself.

Also, I am one of the world's largest midgets and at the same time one of the world's smallest giants.

I like getting eggs out of Ludi's chicken coop but at the same time it wracks me with guilt for stealing.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '
')Also, I am one of the world's largest midgets and at the same time one of the world's smallest giants.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'A')nd we didn't have to lend a hand to post-Soviet Russia

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'I') don't think all FIRST WORLD countries have these issues.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '.').I paid $650 for my first CD player at a time when I had to explain to my friends what "digital" recording even meant; my first cell phone was the size of a carry-on suitcase; I started doing print graphics on a computer back when the nearest service bureau (where, in the day, digital files were "imaged" onto photographic film to be used in the traditional offset printing process) was in San Francisco, 100 miles away from my home - oh yea, that was before Fed Ex - I drove it many times

[Ibon]

You know that rather ambiguous opinion most of the world has toward America. In spite of all the flaws that come with being a global empire and in spite of how much we may be hated and despised in the end we have always also been admired for a certain spirit and optimism and ability to lead on new paths with an almost adolescent enthusiasm.

The Chinese may be more efficiently dealing with resource constraints ( a lot more practice managing 1.5 billion people). Europe is also addressing more seriously macro issues.

So it begs the question. Where is the global empires leadership? America is ailing and has lost something of its optimism. We were a can do spirit country when it came to ascending upwards with ever greater wealth and materialism.

Our adolescent enthusiasm as a nation was always based on the belief that things were just going to continue to get exponentially better and better. And now we know they wont. Intuitively we know this. And right now we are bitter.

A weird position to be the worlds richest country, the global empire still but inhabited by a fearful and bitter population. The rest of the world is seeing this less confident America.

You know what Sixstrings. A big focus has to be on America. Like it or not we have been the model. Even the Chinese for all their efficiency have no alternative vision but to bait their citizenry with a Chinese twist of the American dream of better and more gadgets and toys as the reward to hard work.

So the world watches. Uneasy. If America wants to be the leader it has always been it can. It really can lead again. It can lead us by being the first to fail.

I speak these words as one who is American and has lived more than half my life outside of America. I am 52 years old.

[Newfie]

For me there are plenty of self-contradictions. Upon reflection most are because what works on a macro scale does not make sense on a micro scale. What is good for humanity does not work to make my off spring part of the survivor crowd.

1. I see us polluting the world with our waste, yet I can see no way of stopping my own contribution. If we are, as I see it, beyond the tipping point then there is no going back, no saving humanity. I can only save my own and the best way to do that involves using up more than my fair share of resources.

2. I see human over population as the biggest problem we face, but I can see no viable argument to tell any one person "Don't have kids."

There are more but they don't come to mind in a cogent way at the moment.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'A') weird position to be the worlds richest country, the global empire still but inhabited by a fearful and bitter population. The rest of the world is seeing this less confident America.

[JJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '
')Also, I am one of the world's largest midgets and at the same time one of the world's smallest giants.

[springcreekfarmer]

I have many contradictions but here are a few I'll mention.

I used to drive a Honda CRV, now I drive a half ton 4 x 4 pickup. I can't raid auctions and play around with homesteading and prepare for the future in a Honda even IF I use a trailer. I also drive less these days.

I used to rely solely on solar power for my day to day usage in my barns but now I've had a 100 amp grid connection installed this summer. I can't prepare for the future on solar power because the cost is still too great. I've also come to the conclusion that it is nearly impossible to be a lone survialist in my neck of the woods and I've been here all of my life so I should know. The community aspect simply isn't here. If the grid goes down...being the only person around with solar power isn't going to help me if I get robbed and murdered for what I have. I might as well put that money some where else. If we can keep the grid going, that would be a better option in my area.

I used to obsess with preparation related to peak oil fallout but now I take life a little more day to day. I have worked very hard all of my life and at 45 I have no debt, a farm and many skills as MY prep for post peak mayhem. I have a strong work ethic as my insurnace policy. I still prep but at a pace with more living involved than suffering now. If I have to, I'd prefer to suffer later. I could die tommorrow.

I don't actively try to live off the land but instead, I spend time with my 4 year old, play my guitar once in a while and keep my eyes open and my mouth shut. I have a fairly secure day job so we'll see if that pension comes or not but in any case I feel ready for what's coming down the pike. My point is, there will be nothing for me to do at that moment of mayhem but improvise anyway. Around here...if the grid goes down for any considerable length of time, we're toast anyway and I'm now settled with that reality.

I'm using the rest of my time left making sure my 4 year old son has a great childhood and yet learns all the skills necessary to live by his wits. I'm also going to enjoy my life while minimizing harm to others and the earth. Is there any more logical way, really, to trudge forward knowing what the future holds for humanity?

[ralfy]

Same as what Six Strings wrote: I am part of a global middle class that earns US$10 to 20 a day (or more) and makes up only around 15 pct of the world population (most people worldwide earn only around $2 a day). The only reason why we are able to maintain a middle class lifestyle (which includes being able to access this board) is because we rely on the same global capitalist economy that has led to peak oil.

One time, I created a thread about ecological footprints, and asked doomers to calculate such. We discovered that even a doomstead lifestyle will require up to two earths if everyone in the world lived in such a way. The implication is that even if the middle class cuts down their consumption rate by 50 to 80 pct and everyone lived such a powered-down lifestyle, we'd still be at overshoot. And the global population will increase further, not only because people want to have children but because they want to live longer, too.