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My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 18 Oct 2010, 21:35:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', '[')b]Oregon's 845 megawatt wind farm receives U.S. government support
http://www.gizmag.com/oregon-largest-wi ... ESWiki.com

"Support" being a loan guarantee, a type of subsidy. Also, these projects are usually subsidized by forcing utilities to pay full price for unreliable wind power.

Of course, oil & gas are also subsidized by generous tax write-offs at the expense of other taxpayers.

If we stopped all this preferential treatment for energy projects would the cornycopia still flow?
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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Wed 20 Oct 2010, 11:23:47

A Cheaper Route to Solar Cells

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/ ... lar-cells/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') company that secured a Department of Energy grant to pursue a breakthrough idea in the manufacture of solar cells plans to announce on Tuesday that it has raised $20 million to commercialize its technique, which it says will reduce the price of solar panels by 40 percent.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby ian807 » Wed 20 Oct 2010, 12:18:38

Antidoomer,

You're fooled by the fact that there are solutions to the energy problem - maybe not the liquid fuels problem, but the energy problem. There are solutions that would take care of our energy shortages. No argument.

I think you don't get that it just doesn't *matter.*

The Romans could have solved their problems by limiting their empire's size and losing the unprofitable sectors like the British Isles. The Mayans, Haitians, Easter Islanders all could have stopped cutting down trees and destroying their ecology. The Sumerians could have shifted irrigation patters to avoid salination of their farmland.

There are solutions. There are always solutions. The problem for them, and us, is that the problems aren't recognized, or addressed until it's much, much too late.

Peak oil is a problem of population, complexity and money. Our supply of cheap and available oil will dry up suddenly, not just because of restricted supply, but because of resource nationalism, terrorism, and a lack of investment. When demand becomes relatively inelastic, high oil prices start to feed on themselves (i.e. high oil prices increase the price of everything including the price of producing liquid fuels), and the economy collapses. Without a ready supply of oil for fertilizer, thousands of chemical products we depend on and cheap transportation, civilization will rapidly decomplexify. Decomplexification, in this case, means a lot of people will probably starve, or die of completely curable diseases.

Will we adjust? Sure. Give us a century or two. The remaining folks ought to be doing all right. There just might be a lot fewer of them.
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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Mon 25 Oct 2010, 01:24:41

U.S. Senator John Kerry Visits Joule Unlimited, Calls Renewable Fuel Platform “Game Changing”

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/14/23 ... z13LSjwwDY

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U').S. Senator John Kerry today visited the office and laboratories of Joule Unlimited, Inc., calling its technology platform potentially “game changing” in the all-important race to replace fossil fuels. The Senator met with members of Joule’s executive team and toured the site for a first-hand look at Joule’s advances in biology and integrated system design, which together form a platform for renewable fuel production that will eclipse the scale, efficiencies and net energy yield of any known alternative to fossil fuels today.

10-14 IAN Joule

http://www.aginfo.net/index.cfm/event/r ... News-17554


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Someone appears to have a great idea for alternative energy but that someone’s not talking. I’m David Spark and I’ll share a curious phone call in a minute. I got an e-mail from an old friend who has done a lot of work investigating alternative energy from camalina seeds to algae to ethanol. He said in the e-mail Joule Biotechnologies, a startup based in Massachusetts, has bio-engineered blue-green algae to make it produce hydrocarbon fuel directly from sunlight. The algae, also known as cyanobacteria, is combined with enzymes that capture sunlight to make a biofuel that can replace conventional fuels at less than half their cost.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 25 Oct 2010, 02:22:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'I')t is interesting that Techno-Cornopia appears to be defined as flying cars, free electricity, stuff which obviously hasn't happened.

What happens if Techno-Cornopia ends up being BAU? Forever?

While everyone is waiting for peak oil to stop NASCAR from racing, or NFL fans from tailgating, or commuters from commuting, what we keep getting is just more of the same. I'm watching football today and the stadiums are still full. Natural gas is plentiful and cheap some 5 years after the North American Gas CLIFF was pronounced by Hirsch, gasoline is available up and down and all around and isn't even as expensive as it used to be and certainly no worse than it was decades ago.

Predictions of peak, of the US, or the world, have been around for some 90 years now...what happens if techno-cornopia is just....this....?

I wonder how long predictions were made that Roman civilization was going to fall to barbarians before it finally did?

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 25 Oct 2010, 02:31:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', '[')b]U.S. Senator John Kerry Visits Joule Unlimited, Calls Renewable Fuel Platform “Game Changing”

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/14/23 ... z13LSjwwDY

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U').S. Senator John Kerry today visited the office and laboratories of Joule Unlimited, Inc., calling its technology platform potentially “game changing” in the all-important race to replace fossil fuels. The Senator met with members of Joule’s executive team and toured the site for a first-hand look at Joule’s advances in biology and integrated system design, which together form a platform for renewable fuel production that will eclipse the scale, efficiencies and net energy yield of any known alternative to fossil fuels today.

10-14 IAN Joule

http://www.aginfo.net/index.cfm/event/r ... News-17554


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Someone appears to have a great idea for alternative energy but that someone’s not talking. I’m David Spark and I’ll share a curious phone call in a minute. I got an e-mail from an old friend who has done a lot of work investigating alternative energy from camalina seeds to algae to ethanol. He said in the e-mail Joule Biotechnologies, a startup based in Massachusetts, has bio-engineered blue-green algae to make it produce hydrocarbon fuel directly from sunlight. The algae, also known as cyanobacteria, is combined with enzymes that capture sunlight to make a biofuel that can replace conventional fuels at less than half their cost.

Spark misspelled "Camelina" (sativa... false flax, something I researched last year and will probably grow eventually)
.....
At least Kerry didn't claim to have invented the thing.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Thu 28 Oct 2010, 14:44:05

MiniFuji Thorium Reactor Group Talks to Potential Partners and Customers and Prototype GE-Hitachi Prism Integral Fast Reactor for Savannah River Gets Closer
http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/10/minifu ... ks-to.html

Mr. Fukushima stated that IThEMS is negotiating with Korean Shipbuilders over the potential sale of Mini-Fujis for ship propulsion systems. According to Mr.Fukushima the Korean shipbuilders are in competition with the Chinese, and view mini-Fuji power as potentially offering a competitive advantage. It should be noted that in the long range energy picture decarbonization would require that fossil fuel powered engine technology be replaced by energy from non-carbon emitting source. The options appear to be nuclear power, or synthetic liquid fuel. IThEMS claims that it can build the Fuji for 30% less than conventional water cooled reactors. Thus ship propulsion would appear to represent a market opportunity for the Mini-Fuji. Industrial process heat would be another. The Mini-Fuji would also serve as the energy source for a stand alone nuclear battery system, although that field looks crowded at the moment. The Mini-Fuji would have some advantages over its competitors including superior safety and low cost.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby ian807 » Thu 28 Oct 2010, 18:00:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', 'H')e said in the e-mail Joule Biotechnologies, a startup based in Massachusetts, has bio-engineered blue-green algae to make it produce hydrocarbon fuel directly from sunlight. The algae, also known as cyanobacteria, is combined with enzymes that capture sunlight to make a biofuel that can replace conventional fuels at less than half their cost.

You see this it the kind of crap is what scares me. Economic pressure applied to algae fuel will inevitably force it to become more robust (i.e. cheaper to grow) and to produce hydrocarbons directly to reduce refinement costs, so we have a robust algae that essentially craps out oil.

So what happens when out little energy savior hits the ecosystem? Through an accident, or a spill, or an explosion or whatever, a difficult to kill algae that excretes hydrocarbons out in the wild has the potential to make the gulf oil spill look like a little "oopsie" with no effective way to stop it. If we tweaked it to grow in nice cheap warm salt water, we could potentially destroy the ecology of every ocean with that little green wonder. It's Ice-9, but so green.

So, as solutions go, I'd have to say "risker than nukes" unless you believe there'll never be an accident, ever and corporations can be trusted to put in sufficient safeguards.

And hasn't that approach worked well lately?
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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Fri 29 Oct 2010, 11:31:38

GE to Place Order for `Tens of Thousands' of Electric Vehicles

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-2 ... cmpid=yhoo

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')eneral Electric Co. may jump-start the electric-vehicle industry with an order that Chief Executive Officer Jeffrey Immelt said will be the largest in history.

GE, whose power-generation equipment provides a third of the world’s electricity, will order “tens of thousands” of the vehicles in about a week, Immelt said yesterday in a speech in London, without giving a total or identifying a manufacturer.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Fri 29 Oct 2010, 14:23:41

Tesla, Toyota in Talks on Electric RAV4 Assembly Plans

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-2 ... cmpid=yhoo

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')esla’s goal is to build as many as 20,000 Model S cars a year at its Fremont plant initially, eventually expanding to 50,000 with model variations derived from the same basic platform, Passin said. Production will grow as the company develops lower priced models for mass-market buyers, he said. The plant has capacity to make as many as 500,000 vehicles a year, Tesla said.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby ian807 » Fri 29 Oct 2010, 15:04:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', 'H')e said in the e-mail Joule Biotechnologies, a startup based in Massachusetts, has bio-engineered blue-green algae to make it produce hydrocarbon fuel directly from sunlight. The algae, also known as cyanobacteria, is combined with enzymes that capture sunlight to make a biofuel that can replace conventional fuels at less than half their cost.

You see this it the kind of crap is what scares me. Economic pressure applied to algae fuel will inevitably force it to become more robust (i.e. cheaper to grow) and to produce hydrocarbons directly to reduce refinement costs, so we have a robust algae that essentially craps out oil.

So what happens when out little energy savior hits the ecosystem? Through an accident, or a spill, or an explosion or whatever, a difficult to kill algae that excretes hydrocarbons out in the wild has the potential to make the gulf oil spill look like a little "oopsie" with no effective way to stop it. If we tweaked it to grow in nice cheap warm salt water, we could potentially destroy the ecology of every ocean with that little green wonder. It's Ice-9, but so green.

So, as solutions go, I'd have to say "risker than nukes" unless you believe there'll never be an accident, ever and corporations can be trusted to put in sufficient safeguards.

And hasn't that approach worked well lately?

This is almost as dumb at the so-called Terminator Gene. It is supposed to be engineered into GMO corn so that the next generation of crop is sterilized and the corn breeders (ADM, Cargill etc.) can monopolize the industry i.e. force the farmers not save seeds year-to-year. Now the hippies are afraid this evil Terminator Product will escape into the environment and pollute all the "heirloom" vegetables that that Whole Food's Foodie folk value so much. Does anyone see a problem here?

The Algae issue is similar. No one. No one has bred, hybridized, engineered, designed, what-have-you a successful commercial algae biofuel, for one simple reason: algae that produces measurable quantities of lipids are practically sterile. They don't grow, and they certainly don't breed. If you don't believe me look up the NREL algae program that was cancelled 15 years ago.

All hybridized specially developed plant strains (the kinds that we rely on for all our industrial food system) are notoriously fickle. We spend scads of money to poison weeds with herbicides because our crop plants can not compete on their own. Even if we could develop an algae that produced measurable amounts of commercially priced fuel, it would never ever make it out in the cold cruel world.


Yes, Monsanto, et. al. have terminator genes. Economic pressure moved them to do this, just as economic pressure will move manufacturers to make oil producing algae more robust, and excrete something as close to a finished product as possible so that it will not end up like NREL. Thanks for pointing out a real-world confirmation to my argument.


As for escaping into the environment, most instances have so far been benign:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=genetically-modified-crop
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0831/p15s01-sten.html
http://www.cropchoice.com/leadstrygmo013107.html

which is not to say that this will always be the case.
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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 29 Oct 2010, 15:27:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', ' ')Economic pressure moved them to do this,


"Economic pressure" aka "being greedy bastards." :)
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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Wed 03 Nov 2010, 12:50:34

Nissan sells out electric Leaf before it hits US showrooms
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-nis ... rooms.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')issan dealers have collected more than 20,000 orders for the Leaf, and the bulk are wealthy "early adapters" on the west coast of the United States, said Carlos Tavares, chairman of Nissan's management committee for the Americas.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Tue 09 Nov 2010, 12:17:14

Laser sets records for neutron yield, laser energy
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-las ... nergy.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he National Nuclear Security Administration's National Ignition Facility (NIF) has set world records for neutron yield and laser energy delivered from laser-driven capsules to an inertial confinement fusion (ICF) target. NIF researchers will report on these and other recent experimental results this week at the annual meeting of the American Physical Society Division of Plasma Physics in Chicago.
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


Do I make you Corny? :)

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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby ian807 » Tue 09 Nov 2010, 13:14:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', '[')b]Laser sets records for neutron yield, laser energy
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-las ... nergy.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he National Nuclear Security Administration's National Ignition Facility (NIF) has set world records for neutron yield and laser energy delivered from laser-driven capsules to an inertial confinement fusion (ICF) target. NIF researchers will report on these and other recent experimental results this week at the annual meeting of the American Physical Society Division of Plasma Physics in Chicago.

Nice. Too little and probably much too late, but nice.
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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Wed 10 Nov 2010, 17:46:13

NIF clears latest hurdles towards laser fusion
http://optics.org/news/1/6/11



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')eformable mirror
The two latest feats followed a key milestone passed on September 29, when the first integrated ignition experiment was performed at the facility, demonstrating that the various systems required to achieve ICF were working. In that instance, the laser system delivered a 1 MJ shot to a mixture of tritium, hydrogen and deuterium.

“The results of all of these experiments are extremely encouraging,” said the NIF director Ed Moses. “They give us great confidence that we will be able to achieve ignition conditions in deuterium-tritium fusion targets.”
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby KingM » Wed 10 Nov 2010, 18:10:14

It's nice that we're continuing to fund research into future technologies, but right now, these are years or even decades away, so why not focus on proven technologies, such as electrified rail and thorium nuclear power plants? That's what our effort in the short to medium term should be focusing on.
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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby Xenophobe » Wed 10 Nov 2010, 20:56:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KingM', 'I')t's nice that we're continuing to fund research into future technologies, but right now, these are years or even decades away, so why not focus on proven technologies, such as electrified rail and thorium nuclear power plants? That's what our effort in the short to medium term should be focusing on.


Maybe when all the plentiful and relatively inexpensive fossil fuels run low? I mean really, whats the point in the meantime, unless some pretty fierce anti-CO2 legislation gets passed? Its not like we're running out of fossil fuels anytime soon.
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Re: My Techno-Copia Meter is Jittering towards Max

Unread postby ian807 » Wed 10 Nov 2010, 21:21:12

Tell me again why we're not instead funding use of that *working* fusion reactor otherwise known as "the sun."

Any real cost/risk advantage to having a smaller one close by? Anybody?
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