Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direction

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 17:48:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', 'I')f you don't like the fact that plastic comes from china, stop buying it, or outlaw it. Don't tax the guy that is savy enough to use it to his advantage.


That's what I'm talking about. We don't need to outlaw imports, just enact tariffs. That way people are still free to eat that French cheese if they really really really love stinky French cheese. But with tariffs in place, most folks would give an artisan Wisconsin cheese a try.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Money that is deserved comes from work. Money that is not deserved comes from inheritage, bribes, gifts, anti-competitive contracts and such.


I disagree. Just as the government governs at the consent of the governed, I say the wealthy should only be rich at the consent of the poor. How do the poor give this consent? By having paying jobs to go to, supporting the lifestyles of the rich. But when the rich send their money offshore, the social contract has broken down.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')imit corporations to a reasonable size, such that none is too powerful (ANTI TRUST LAW but much more stringent, as said no bigger than $1B or no more than 1000 employees). and all your problems are solved.


I think your heart's in the right place, but I think it's unworkable and far more dangerous than just high taxes and mercantilism. For example, what you're proposing would require Google to limit itself to only a certain number of searches so that Yahoo and Bing can have some customers too.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 17:56:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '[')b]So if I make $150k year I should fork over $135k for society? leaving me with $15k? Is that fair?


You would be exempt from all this. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE RICH HERE, so that means the 90% bracket is for something like 400k+ or 1 million+.

You would have to pay tariffs on imported goods though, although after a transitional period all that production would shift back here to the US and then voila the unemployed will have jobs again.

Bottom line.. what I'm asking of you is that when you buy a TV, give an American a job instead of a Chinese person. You live here, not China.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 18:08:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Money that is deserved comes from work. Money that is not deserved comes from inheritage, bribes, gifts, anti-competitive contracts and such.


I disagree. Just as the government governs at the consent of the governed, I say the wealthy should only be rich at the consent of the poor. How do the poor give this consent? By having paying jobs to go to, supporting the lifestyles of the rich.


But if the rich guy "deserves" his money because he works for it, does he really work hundreds or even thousands of times harder than his underlings?

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/

In many cases the rich pay a lower tax rate than the non-rich. Warren Buffett famously complained that his tax rate was lower than his secretary's because his income was primarily from investments, whereas his secretary's income was from wages.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/ ... 996735.ece
Ludi
 
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Pops » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 18:13:16

In the vein of fixing things...

Why is it good for the country to have huge corporate conglomerates? What benefit is it to me as a citizen for GE for example to own a TV network and make military jet engines and provide oil field services? Does the nightly news turn out better because GE is selling water in Africa? I think it's time for another round of "Trust Busting".

Tell me too, why it's good for the country for people who earn money because they have money to pay a lesser or different tax rate than people who work for wages? Are people with trust funds going to put the family money into a passbook account instead of investing? And so what if they don't invest! They aren't investing here anyway.

I'd say we need to eliminate all the bs and institute some kid of a simple, mildly progressive tax. Low income workers with kids (like around the poverty line) receive some kind of subsidy for being dumb but trying, on up to high income people, everyone pays a flat tax on all income - including everything they inherit over some small amount, I don't know what.

Aside from the dumb subsidy I think we should toss out all the subsidies, incentives, tax credits, sweetheart regulations, mortgage interest deductions, etc, all of them and start over - nothing in this free market is free, there are just way too many distortions.

As was mentioned, the military is a huge waste - huge waste. I mean crap, we all know the next war will be (or is already) between computer viruses. And why do I give a crap if N. Korea overruns S. Korea anyway? Keep the Nukes, build a million drones, adopt a Swiss "everyone serves" defense.

Index social security to life expectancy and income till it pencils out, for cripes sake socialize health care already and make a basic college education affordable - we're so friggin busy whining about government taking our money we've become second rate in everything from infrastructure to infant mortality to college grads to income equality. But boy do we have good prisons - $22k average per prisoner and 50% are in for non-violent crimes - we are so worried about what's "Mine" we can't see how fast we're losing "ours".

And the morning and night were the first day... :lol:
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Pops » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 18:17:00

The problem with protectionism is that if we put up a barrier to imports our exports will be blocked as well. So we can't afford french cheese because they can't afford to buy our potatoes for their fries.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 18:17:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'B')ut if the rich guy "deserves" his money because he works for it, does he really work hundreds or even thousands of times harder than his underlings?


Just to clarify, I'm not even saying we shouldn't have "rich" and "undlerings." All I'm asking for is that the American rich have AMERICAN underlings.

The biggest problem we have by the way isn't so much imported luxuries but how the rich invest their money -- it's all offshore or in foreign-dominated global corporations. None of that helps Americans here at home.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')he problem with protectionism is that if we put up a barrier to imports our exports will be blocked as well. So we can't afford french cheese because they can't afford to buy our potatoes for their fries.


The Chinese are protectionist, and they're kicking our butts. The status quo is collapsing Pops, globalism is doomed because of peak oil if nothing else. At some point we'll have to get nationalist and local again and stop the GDP hemorrhaging offshore.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Pops » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 18:25:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')he Chinese are protectionist, and they're kicking our butts. The status quo is collapsing Pops, globalism is doomed because of peak oil if nothing else. At some point we'll have to get nationalist and local again and stop the GDP hemorrhaging offshore.

Sure they are keeping their currency low but does it have nothing to do with the cost of business? How many jobs are you going to produce by making all tupperware bowls $25 because that's what it costs to make them in the US?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 18:52:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '[')b]Sure they are keeping their currency low but does it have nothing to do with the cost of business? How many jobs are you going to produce by making all tupperware bowls $25 because that's what it costs to make them in the US?


Keeping their currency low is a tool of protectionism. But they do other kinds of protectionism too:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Chinese protectionism, not the yuan, is our greatest concern, says top US negotiator

Rising levels of back-door protectionism against foreign businesses in China is potentially of greater concern to US interests than the under-valuation of the Chinese currency, Washington’s top trade negotiator warned on Tuesday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/7764019/Chinese-protectionism-not-the-yuan-is-our-greatest-concern-says-top-US-negotiator.html


I don't feel like googling all the protectionism China engages in. They allow imports of course, they're just very careful about it. Their NUMBER ONE priority in that country is employment -- seems to me in the US employment has become the last priority of our PTB.

And to be fair Pops, I realize if my ideas were enacted then there would be a global economic sh*tstorm. And I also realize globalism has given our middle and working classes all kinds of cheap electronics and consumer stuff. And that's all good up to the point where we are now, with tens of millions unemployed and 50 million in poverty, with millions more immigrants streaming in and no end in sight.

You have that thread about the "pink slips," well the pink slip, destitution, and possible homelessness are the deferred costs of those cheap iThings and plastic pumpkins.

So yes, a transition to protectionism would be rough -- but the road we're on right now is going nowhere good, and at some point we're going to have to take a chance and try something different. We might be doing that as we speak by trashing the dollar, though in my opinion that's just racing the world to the bottom -- if we're going to try protectionism, let's do it right. That means suck it up and pay $22 for tupperware and maybe your children and grandchildren can have a job one day.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 21:16:10

Neither shall you desire your neighbor's house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 21:23:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'N')either shall you desire your neighbor's house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


Deut. 26:5-9. The Egyptians treated us harshly and afflicted us, and imposed hard labor on us. Then we cried to the LORD, the God of our fathers, and the LORD heard our voice and saw our affliction and our toil and our oppression; and the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with great terror and with signs and wonders; and He has brought us to... this land flowing with milk and honey.

Luke 4:16-21. And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read... "The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, because He appointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free those who are downtrodden, to proclaim the favorable year of the LORD... Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."

Ps. 140:12. I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and justice for the poor.

Is. 25:4. For You have been a defense for the helpless, a defense for the needy in his distress.

Ps. 10:14. The unfortunate commits himself to You; You have been the helper of the orphan... O LORD, You have heard the desire of the humble; You will strengthen their heart, You will incline Your ear to vindicate the orphan and the oppressed.

Is 41:17. The afflicted and needy are seeking water, but there is none, and their tongue is parched with thirst. I, the LORD, will answer them Myself, as the God of Israel I will not forsake them.

Luke 6:20-21. Blessed are you who are poor, for yours in the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.

James 2:5. Did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.

Deut. 26:12. When you have finished paying the complete tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow, that they may eat in your towns, and be satisfied.

Lev. 19:19ff. Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.

Prov. 31:8ff. [Commandment to kings.] Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

Is. 58:66ff. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Jer. 22:3. Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Luke 12:33. "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys."

Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, "Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise."

Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. Prov. 22:9 He who is generous will be blessed, for he gives some of his food to the poor.

Jer. 22:16 "Did not your father eat and drink, and do justice and righteousness? Then it was well with him. He pled the cause of the afflicted and needy; then it was well. Is that not what it means to know Me?" declares the LORD.

Deut. 15:10. You shall give generously to [your poor brother], and your heart shall not be grieved when you give to him, because for this thing the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in all your undertakings.

Prov. 19:17. He who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, and He will repay him for his good deed.

Jer. 7:5-7. "For, if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly practice justice between a man and his neighbor, if you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, and the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place, nor walk after other gods to your own ruin, then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers forever and ever."

Is. 58:10. "And if you give yourself to the hungry, and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then your light will rise in darkness, and your gloom will become like midday. And the LORD will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; and you will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water whose waters do not fail."

Luke 14:12-14. "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and repayment come to you. But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Luke 12:44. "Sell your possessions and give alms; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Mt. 19:20ff. The young man said to Him, "All these commands I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Ezek. 16:49ff. "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."

Is. 10:1-3. "Woe to those who enact evil statutes, and to those who continually record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice, and rob the poor of My people of their rights... Now what will you do in the day of punishment, and in the devastation which will come from afar?"

Luke 1:52ff. [Mary's Magnificat.] "He has brought down rulers from their thrones, and has exalted those who were hungry. He has filled the hungry with good things; and sent away the rich empty-handed."

Ezek. 22:29,31. "The people of the land have practiced oppression and committed robbery, and they have wronged the poor and needy and have oppressed the sojourner without justice... Thus I have poured out My indignation on them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; their way I have brought upon their heads," declares the Lord GOD.

Jer. 5:28f. "[The wicked] do not plead the cause, the cause of the orphan, that they may prosper; and they do not defend the rights of the poor. Shall I not punish these people?" declares the LORD. "On such a nation as this, shall I not avenge myself?"

James 5:1-6. Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. ...Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and with you have withheld, cries out against you; and the outcry of the harvesters has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

Luke 6:24. "But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full."

Luke 16:19-25. "Now there was a certain rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, gaily living in splendor every day. And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs would come and lick his sores.
Now it came about that the poor man died and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue; for I am in agony in this flame.'
But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony...'"
Prov. 29:7. The righteous is concerned for the rights of the poor; the wicked does not understand such concern.

1 John 3:17. But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

Luke 6:33ff. "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, in order to receive back the same."

2 Cor 9:7. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Mt. 6:2-4. "When therefore you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you."

Mt. 6:24. "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Money."

1 Tim. 6:10. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.

Gal. 2:9ff. Recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John... gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we might go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. They only asked us to remember the poor-- the very thing I also was eager to do.

Lev. 19:15. "You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly."

Acts 2:44. All those who had believed were together, and had all things in common; and they began to sell their property and possessions, and share them with all, as anyone might have need.

Acts 4:32-35. And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. And with great power the apostles were giving witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles' feet; and they would be distributed to each, as any had need.

Eph. 4:28. Let him who steals steal no longer; but rather let him labor, performing with his own hands what is good, in order that he may have something to share with him who has need.
2 Cor. 8:9. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.

Prov. 19:17. He who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, and He will repay him for his good deed.

Prov. 14:31. He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, but he who is gracious to the needy honors Him.

Mt. 25:31-46. "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on His left.
Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite you in, or naked, and clothe You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Then they themselves will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Reference: The Bible
Ludi
 
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 21:27:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')nd then why not require the rich to sew a special patch on their clothes, like a big yellow star or something, so everyone can identify them when they are out on the streets.


Plant, in case you haven't noticed the rich already wear "special clothes" and are easily identifiable. In fact, every socio-economic class wears the most expensive clothes they can afford just so that they can stand out and everyone will know where they are in the pecking order.



Jeez...its not that way in Alaska. Everybody wears pretty much the same stuff when its -40 --- Carhardts overalls and fur hats. The rich might have a bit nicer rifles and newer pick up trucks but my gear works fine for me.

Image
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 21:29:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'N')either shall you desire your neighbor's house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


Christian nations have never set national policy that's in line with the precepts of Christianity. It's never happened, from the beginning in the Roman Empire to the Crusades.

And besides, our nation was founded on Enlightenment ideals of reason, and our revolution was all about the inequities of being chained to a global Empire.

But while we're on about it, why do right wing folks always bring up that "covet" line from the Bible but don't talk much about the "brothers' keeper" stuff, or how the Bible comes right out and says it's not very likely a rich man will get into heaven?

Anyhow, we're not a theocracy so what Jesus thought or Mohammed thought or the Buddha thought has nothing to do with it.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 20 Oct 2010, 01:07:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'J')eez...its not that way in Alaska. Everybody wears pretty much the same stuff when its -40 --- Carhardts overalls and fur hats. The rich might have a bit nicer rifles and newer pick up trucks but my gear works fine for me
The rich wear fancy imported fur hats, all the way from Russia.Image
Facebook knows you're a dog.
User avatar
Keith_McClary
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7344
Joined: Wed 21 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Suburban tar sands
Top

Re: The record-breaking US economy -- all in the wrong direc

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 20 Oct 2010, 19:10:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'N')either shall you desire your neighbor's house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


Christian nations have never set national policy that's in line with the precepts of Christianity. It's never happened, from the beginning in the Roman Empire to the Crusades.

And besides, our nation was founded on Enlightenment ideals of reason, and our revolution was all about the inequities of being chained to a global Empire.

But while we're on about it, why do right wing folks always bring up that "covet" line from the Bible but don't talk much about the "brothers' keeper" stuff, or how the Bible comes right out and says it's not very likely a rich man will get into heaven?

Anyhow, we're not a theocracy so what Jesus thought or Mohammed thought or the Buddha thought has nothing to do with it.


IMO there is no such thing as a "Christian Nation, Muslim Nation, Buddhist Nation" because ones faith or lack of it is a personal choice, not a collective choice. At best or worst you might have a nation where the majority of citizens profess a given faith, but even then most are just giving lip service to go along and get along, not speaking from a personal belief system.

Jesus told us it is hard for a rich man to get into heaven after he told a rich man to give away all his wealth to the poor and the rich man refused. There are also many rich men throughout history who have given a great deal to charity, some of them everything they had. Look up the giving record of Bill Gates, or Alfred Nobel or John Huntsman, or even Henry Ford. They all do or did give a lot.

As for being my brothers keeper, I am not as good as I should be at it but I tithe and I do other things like volunteer my time on here to settle disputes and delete spam to try and make our world a better place.

Thirdly I am about as center of the road Libertarian as you can get, I do not support either the Right or the Left as I believe both of them want to confiscate my stuff to reward their own ends. I was and am no fan of George Bush (1st or 2nd) and I don't think Bill Clinton was particularly better or worse than they were.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA
Top

Previous

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron