[mistel]

I have several diesels that I run on WVO. I have been doing this for years and have lots of experiance doing it. Realistically, it is hard to do on the road. If TSHTF, there will be no WVO available. It already is hard to get unless you have a relationship with a restaurant. If TSHTF and you start going around stealing WVO from restaurant dumpsters (assuming there will be operating restaurants) you are only adding to the chaos. An option would be to collect and store WVO pre-crash, but that presents problems as well, WVO will spoil. You must also rememeber that virtually every vehicle avaiable today in America is very thirsty and will use a lot of WVO. I think people would understand better how much gas/diesel they use if they had to carry all of it!

Anyways, I don`t want to rain on your parade, WVO could be usefull if you keep a supply on hand, like enough to get to where ever you plan to go, and diesel is not available. It could be a lifesaver. Remember also, if you just need 20 gallons or so to get out of town, you can always buy VO in a store and just dump it in your tank. I keep a gallon in my car if I run out of fuel.

Let me know how you propose to use WVO and I can give you some real world advice.

Good luck

[mattduke]

The "position limits" are for longs, not shorts like JPM which is short a years worth of global silver production.

http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStock ... 5220100223

[lowem]

They can't take on the global markets all by themselves.

In the blink of an eye capital can be re-allocated and trading could continue on the Shanghai gold exchange in Chinese yuan. Or, Singapore could open one quickly and we'll welcome folks to trade in Singapore dollars, any other incoming currency could be exchanged at competitive rates

[timmac]

Manipulating Gold (GLD) and Silver (SLV): A Criminal Naked Short Position that Could Wreck the Economy

http://www.marketrap.com/article/view_a ... -criminal-

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat Christian was saying is that every ounce of gold or silver is being sold 100 times. This would not be problematic if we were speaking of some dusty market in Central Asia with rows of traders’ stalls wherein some commodity (such as gold, silver, radios or Kalashnikovs) were being sold and resold in rapid-fire succession: there, our sensibilities about scarcity, value, and price discovery would actually grip reality. Here, however, we are talking of markets where the distinction between reality and representation has become as blurry as the last round of a game of musical chairs, enabling some sellers to offload paper IOUs promising eventual delivery of silver and gold – promises that would be impossible to keep if some small segment of the buyers were to demand delivery of the real thing.

This is quite similar to the naked short selling of stocks, where traders sell stock that does not exist, but enter IOUs in their computers, and then “fail to deliver” what they have promised. It is hard to distinguish this from fraud (notwithstanding the Efficient Market Hypothesis of financial theory, which maintains, essentially, that it shouldn’t matter). Christian, the fellow who inadvertently revealed the massive naked short positions in gold and silver, said that he didn’t see this as a problem because “there are any number of mechanisms for cash settlement,” and “almost all of these short positions are in fact hedges…”

[pedalling_faster]

these are the URL's i've accumulated for this (for me) very interesting news about fraud in the metals markets.

since the news was first revealed in about the last week of March, gold climbed steadily from 1090 to about 1160. Silver from $17 to $18.50.

this last week PM prices declined on Tuesday & Friday.

a few of the interviews describe London Metals Trader Andrew Maguire's decriptions & predictions of market manipulation in early February. which was quite memorable because we watched silver downtick to $16 and then $15.

the MO of the PM market manipulators ( i will add that just part of the market, London Bullion, trades $5.4 Trillion annually ... it's not a small market) is they will wait for some small piece of bad news and then institute a massive naked short position, resulting in quite un-natural 3% price movement on gold and 5% price movement on silver.


interview with Andrew Maguire, metals trader & whistleblower

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/ ... 3A2010.mp3

right click, "save as" or "save target as", to save the *.mp3.

\/ more on the CFTC (Commodity Futures Trading Commission) Hearings last week.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/ ... 3A2010.mp3


Commentary @ Zero-hedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/former ... gold-ponzi

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/whistl ... ion-scheme


More interview, with GATA Founder Bill Murphy
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Bill ... 4-2010.mp3


follow-up interviews

Harvey & Lenny Organ & Adrian Douglas
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/ ... 3A2010.mp3

John Williams on Unemployment & Inflation
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/ ... 3A2010.mp3


article, "Hong Kong Pulls All Gold Reserves From Depositories In London"
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldn ... liver.html

customers sue Morgan Stanley for charging storage fees for Paper Gold
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldn ... ansal.html


Financial Sense article on Tungsten Gold
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/edito ... /1118.html

[timmac]

Great vids PF, if anyone had lots of dollars invested in Gold or Silver they may want to take a close look at this Huge Fraud, this could possibly bring down all markets around the world, would it not..

[Outcast_Searcher]

Big picture, there is a larger percentage of people, especially in the first world, who apparently think it is fine to commit some kind of fraud if it gets them ahead.

To me, PM's are a hedge against chaos. They are a long term hedge. I don't worry about short term prices. If stuff like this causes a temporary panic, and prices go WAY down, then I'd probably use it as an opportunity to dollar-cost average into more PM's.

There are a huge number of people all around the world, including MANY in Chinda who have a cultural belief in buying gold as an investment.

I very much doubt stuff like this will change any of the above, over time, even if it may make the price of the PM's somewhat more volatile.

In fact, to me, general issues WAY outweigh this in the case for a PORTION of portfolios having PM's as a currency hedge. Examples:

1). With banksters playing games like the CDS fiasco and having to count on (ahem) congress to "regulate" to supposedly fix it. With having to rely on corrupt and grossly incompetent organizations like the SEC to enforce any regulations. With companies able to contribute unlimited funds to get bribable elected officials into office - the big banks alone are a huge destabilizing risk.

2). With the Fed running the currency, and congress steadily trying to lower the power of the fed -- now THERE'S an ugly trend.

3). With a whiny constituent-led increasing wave of spending and anti-budget sanity spreading -- there's an exponentially ugly trend.

4). With outfits like Greece out there, and even if they COULD be fixed financially, with a culture HEAVILY imbedded with corruption and bribery -- yeah THAT has to be "good" for currencies -- sure...


Sorry, but no amount of short term games is going to scare me out of my core PHYSICAL PM (i.e the metal in a lock box, etc) holdings. (Now -- it might make me ponder how large my stock holdings via resource funds in PM mines should get, especially if those holdings aren't for the very long term...)

[pedalling_faster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'B')ig picture, there is a larger percentage of people, especially in the first world, who apparently think it is fine to commit some kind of fraud if it gets them ahead.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')till, the reason why The Automatic Earth doesn't focus on gold or its price is very simple: it's not the right conversation to have at this point in time.

When we're done, as a society, as a national and global economy, with this round of real life Jeopardy behind us, 90-something percent of those who today see themselves as investors will no longer be that, and will have had to sell their gold and silver and most of their other possessions just to keep their families clothed, warm and fed. Unfortunately, that realization hasn't seeped through at all. First off, we're not smart enough to do the math, and second, we wish to wish it all away.

When our financial systems began to shake in 2007 and large chunks started to fall off in Jericho fashion in 2008, we were not witnessing yet another cyclical economic move, not another run of the mill thirteen in a dozen recession. We were watching the end of the financial system as we had come to know it.

And we still are. We're watching Wile E. Coyote on a broken reel.

(snip)

It's time to stop fooling yourselves. For the US economy, housing market and labor market, like for Wile E., there’s only one way to go from here, and that is down. It's not going to come back for a very long time, if ever. And that, if nothing else, means our decisions, as a society and as individuals, will have to be radically different from what they would be if there were a chance of a recovery.

(snip)

This will lead to an explosion in unemployment, since ever fewer people will have any discretionary income needed to keep stores and factories open, which will then hammer home prices even more. Consequently, tax revenues at all levels will scrape the gutters, forcing governments at all levels to lay off more workers, and so on: you can by now finish the story pourself and color the pictures. It's called debt deflation, people, and once you’re in debt way over your head as a society or as an individual there's nothing you can do but to lay low and let it run its course.

(snip)

If you can accept that 90-odd% of US banks are zombie banks (toxic assets!), that nothing has changed despite the money that was transferred from you to them, that their losses on toxic paper are far worse than anything you could ever afford, then you will have tp accept that you are zombies too, zombies, not investors, and that it's immaterial whether you make a nickel or two on gold purchases, that those matter only in Wile E. Coyote's suspended cartoon reality, not in yours.
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2010/10/october-8-2010-wile-es-suspended.html

[PrestonSturges]

The Automatic Earth has a very good track record, although there is never a shortage of bears even at the best of times, and bears often they have absolute worst ROI.

However, AE has been very good about warning people to not get pulled into sucker rallies, and they have been pretty close to the mark.

Still, at the end of the day and the end of the dollar, we might all be hunkered down for a while while there is a new Bretton Woods. But keep in mind the Euro is not strong enough to be a reserve currency, and I've always said let the Chinese give it a spin and they'll implode in 90 days.

In the mean time, if the shit hits the fan, paying the mortgage would take a low priority, as the whole whole country can't get thrown into the street Grapes of Wrath style, especially when the banks don't want those assets on their books. And they won't take gold for that anyway.

People's belief in gold and silver has some factual basis, but that gold has to be in your hand, not a gold certificate, and if you have gold in hand, then you are a prime target for theft. And maybe you'd have been better off investing that cash in a reliable vehicle, bicycle, varmint gun, and rainwater system.

Nationally, gold never prevented a financial crisis.

[PrestonSturges]

The other thing to remember is that in the Depression many successful people lost everything in precious metals scams that were just Ponzi schemes. This was apparently quite common.

Also having stuff to barter like fruit is quite useful. Are you better off with one gram of gold, or the pear tree it could have bought?

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')So, anyone agree? After it all collapses, if a dollar is worthless and a bit of food is beyond priceless, how ultimately useful is a stash of shiny metal?

[Rod_Cloutier]

We could, of course, have attemps at large scale land expropriations by the government to set up giant corporate farms everywhere, completely replacing 'family farms'. out of necessity. They would institute marshal law based on agricultural imperatives, and strictly ration food supplies.

I saw a program on TV where wealthy people in Thailand were all sent out to live with Buddhist monks for a month. After an initial transition, they all saw how little food it requires for basic sustenance; everything else is surplus.

This is likely what will happen to the wealthy democracies. A transition to doing without large houses and cars, planned rationed government controlled agriculture everywhere. The quality of life reverting to say what existed in 1860, where earning enough for food was 80% of the average wage, and then the 20% you had left for everything else.

Chaos and collapse in all the 2nd and 3rd world countries; where the 'zombie hoard' nightmare is already real. Just look to modern day Sub Saharan Africa to see what it will look like. Where everyday people break the law to hunt and kill endangered animals to fuel the black market for food meat. Where 70% of the middle aged population has died or is dying of pandemic disease. Where orphan kids are raising and supporting themselves on whatever they can find. Where the enviroment is pushed past all breaking points, and the consequences of perpetual warfare is present everywhere.

(I hope I'm wrong)

[PrestonSturges]

I think if there was a catastrophic economic collapse, the Dems would send the National Guard to the farms to plant and harvest by hand so everyone could get 1200 calories a day. The GOP would send the National Guard into the streets to randomly shoot starving "looters."

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'I') think if there was a catastrophic economic collapse, the Dems would send the National Guard to the farms to plant and harvest by hand so everyone could get 1200 calories a day.

[gollum]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'I') think if there was a catastrophic economic collapse, the Dems would send the National Guard to the farms to plant and harvest by hand so everyone could get 1200 calories a day. The GOP would send the National Guard into the streets to randomly shoot starving "looters."

[Pops]

Probably the worst thing that could happen is what's happening right now - just like what happened in Japan - pretending things are getting better while changing nothing. I don't know whether to hope the props will fall out and things do a major reset or that we'll continue to do the Zombie shuffle.

So the economy collapses, so what do you do the next day? You go out and make a deal with the neighbor to patch his leaky roof in return for some pears - voila! New Economy.

As far as PMs, right now I have 40-something calves anywhere from 75 - 750# and lets say you want to buy one. How am I suppose to know:
A, the purity of your gold?
B, the fair price of your gold?
C, that I'll be able to use your gold myself?

I'm not sure the clerk at the Quick Sak is going to be able to do any better. Your friendly local jeweler/pawn shop/We Buy Gold store will certainly be more than happy to take it off your hands - in return for ???

OTOH if you have tools, food I don't have, fuel, skills, labor etc, we can easily calculate what is a fair trade.

If you have all your basics covered and can feed and house yourself and still have lots of wealth left over, by all means go buy gold - you can stand the loss!

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')OTOH if you have tools, food I don't have, fuel, skills, labor etc, we can easily calculate what is a fair trade.

[Cloud9]

Zombies were taken care of by the vagrancy laws of the 1930s. If you don’t have any visible means of support and no address off to the county work farm with you. Idle hands are the devil’s work shop.

As for gold and silver, someone will have a hoard of gas or beans or bullets or something and he will be will to part with what he thinks is a surplus in exchange for what he needs. Gold and silver are non perishable stores of wealth. Two fellows walk up to you after the collapse. One has a wad of paper in his hand; the other has ten silver eagles. Which one are you going to be interested in talking to? The answer depends on which one you can more readily exchange. That depends on what happens to the paper.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'Z')ombies were taken care of by the vagrancy laws of the 1930s. If you don’t have any visible means of support and no address off to the county work farm with you. Idle hands are the devil’s work shop.