[diemos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I') didn't bother to calculate anything.

[Vogelzang]

pstarr is a Nazi.

[dsula]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vogelzang', 'p')starr is a Nazi.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vogelzang', 'p')starr is a Nazi.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vogelzang', 'T')he doomers here are left wing retards who can't make it in any society and resort to crime, freeloading, lies, taking government handouts, etc. to survive.

[Newfie]

Either I'm evolving or the Left, including Humanist I know, is floating out into left field.

[DesuMaiden]

I will have to quote Einstein on this matter, who once said that:

"The main difference between an idiot and a genius is that a genius knows his limits"

We doomers or techno-pessimists know and realize the limitations of technology. Techno-optimists, on the other hand, typically have an uncriticial acceptance of technology as the savior of humanity. Technology, to them, is like a magical force that can solve all of our problems.

Of course, the truth is in favor of the techno-pessimists most of the time, especially considering that most of the problems humanity faces today were created by technological solutions to the problems of yesterday. Every techno-fix (or a solution that involves a technological spin without addressing the underlying ecological, sociological or other aspects to the problem) creates at least two extra problems for every problem itr solves. So we end up acculumating more unsolvable problems in the long run until there are so many unsolvable problems that the whole civilization collapses under strain.

For example, humanity has been fighting against malnutrition by constantly finding out more ways to grow food as a techno-fix. Unfortunately, this food-race (as Daniel Quinn calls it ) cannot be won because creating more food does not solve the underlying causes of malnutrition and world hunger. Increasing our food supply increases our population, which demands yet more increases in food supply. Yet there are always more malnourished people. We have been so efficient at increasing our food supply to the point that our population has grown to an enormous and unsustainable size as a result. And unfortunately we cannot increase food supply for much longer despite the fact that demand for food is still increasing (due to an increasing population of humans). Plus, ecosystems are collapsing around the world because of human impact, which will eventually reduce our ability to grow food in the future. Factors like fresh water scarcity, top soil erosion, anthropogenic climate change and peak fossil fuels/energy will reduce our ability to grow and distribute enough food for sustaining our present human population, let alone the increased population in the coming decades. Local/regional or even global famine seems inevitable in the future despite and because of our techno-fixes.

For the techno-pessimist or doomter, realizing that the resources and space on this planet are finite, and can only, therefore, support a finite human population and finite consumption levels is not delusional. Thinking that we will always find a substitute for a depleting/diminishing resource so that we can continue infinite growth in consumption and population on a finite planet is the epitome of wishful thinking because it just isn't possible. For many resources, there are simply no substitutes due to the laws of physics, chemistry, biology and etc, so when those resources are gone, whatever products or services those resources use to provide will also go away.