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History of American Progressivism through Literature

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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Ludi » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 18:25:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '
')The Progressives on the Left side need a similar place to express themselves away from the old rot of the Democratic Party.



Sort of like the (semi-moribund) Green Party?
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Ludi » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 18:30:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'L')ook at the right-wing authoritarians try to tell us they aren't right-wing authoritarians. :lol:



Are you saying the Tea Party are right wing authoritarians?

An interesting aspect of the Tea Party might be that no matter what the Tea Party does or says, the Tea Party can represent that the Tea Party has not done or said those things. So even though the Tea Party calls for a Christian nation, the Tea Party can claim it does no such thing.

Plausible deniability.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Cid_Yama » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 18:33:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') guess you could say that the media's new catch phrase these days is Tea Party. A couple of years ago, this tradition was reborn by a nationwide grassroots movement of non-partisan freedom lovers, who are seeking a return to the Constitutional roots of this nation.

Arising first as the Ron Paul Revolution and now the Campaign For Liberty, this diverse and tech-savvy group of creative individuals reignited the idea of liberty in the political collective consciousness.

The problem is that the Orwellian newspeak media has left out the fact that the Ron Paul Tea Parties started under the Bush administration, and were not focused on attacking Bush, but instead were exposing the unconstitutionality of the Fed, IRS, NAU, Patriot Act, NAFTA, wars for empire and the list goes on. Our enemy is not a politician, political party or pundit, it's the corporate governmental mechanisms of control that expand no matter who is in office.

This blatant hijacking of the patriot, truth and liberty movement, should be further confirmation that the majority of Americans are waking up and shaking off the two-party propaganda tool that is used to divide and conquer. New counter measures had to be taken by the ruling oligarchy to prevent any further movement outside their control system. The current financial crisis has lifted the veil just enough for some light to pass through, so they need to apply a new layer of filters to conceal the truth behind the veil.

Now that the GOP has taken hold and assimilated the leadership of this former grassroots movement, it makes sense for them to move against the ideals that were the foundation. The very criticisms that are being levied against Congressman Paul are the bedrock issues that helped form this group of individuals. This is much more then ousting Ron Paul, it's about destroying the movement of liberty by imprinting the old neocon paradigm under a new name.

There is more than a little irony in the fact that congressman Ron Paul is facing three primary challengers this year, all of them linked in some way to the Tea Party movement.

Many observers give the libertarian from Texas credit for having sparked the Tea Party movement in 2007 when he held a "money bomb" fundraiser on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party, raking in some $6 million for his presidential run in one day.

But, as the Dallas Morning News reported earlier this week, Paul is facing three primary challengers -- more than he has faced in the past six primaries combined. And every one of the challengers is linked to the Tea Party movement.

Washington Independent contributor David Weigel told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow Monday night that the Tea Party movement of today has little in common with that fundraiser in 2007.

"Those libertarian ideas [may be] popular at the Cato Institute, [but] they're not really popular with Tea Party activists," Weigel said.

It's official, the hijacking is complete. The Tea Party movement has been usurped by the GOP, this is confirmed by the $100,000 payout for Sarah Palin. The history of the movement has been hidden from the public by the MSM just like George Orwell's 1984.

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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Ludi » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 18:41:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he Tea Party movement has been usurped by the GOP



Ron Paul is not a Libertarian, he is a Republican. I guess he usurped himself.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Cid_Yama » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 18:51:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Tea Party Movement gained national attention in the summer of 2009 when organized protests occurred at Congressional "town hall" meetings that discussed healthcare reform.

While promoted as a spontaneous "grassroots" movement, many of the activities of Tea Party groups were organized by corporate lobbying groups.

In an article in the August 30, 2010 issue of The New Yorker magazine, author Jane Mayer links the billionaire brothers David Koch and Charles Koch, owners of Koch Industries to tea party movement funding. Mayer writes,

The anti-government fervor infusing the 2010 elections represents a political triumph for the Kochs. By giving money to “educate,” fund, and organize Tea Party protesters, they have helped turn their private agenda into a mass movement. Bruce Bartlett, a conservative economist and a historian, who once worked at the National Center for Policy Analysis, a Dallas-based think tank that the Kochs fund, said, “The problem with the whole libertarian movement is that it’s been all chiefs and no Indians. There haven’t been any actual people, like voters, who give a crap about it. So the problem for the Kochs has been trying to create a movement.” With the emergence of the Tea Party, he said, “everyone suddenly sees that for the first time there are Indians out there—people who can provide real ideological power.” The Kochs, he said, are “trying to shape and control and channel the populist uprising into their own policies.

Reports indicate that the Tea Party Movement benefits from millions of dollars from conservative foundations that are derived from wealthy U.S. families and their business interests. Is appears that money to organize and implement the Movement flows primarily through two conservative groups: Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks.

In an April 9, 2009 article on ThinkProgress.org, Lee Fang reports that the principal organizers of Tea Party events are Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works, two "lobbyist-run think tanks" that are "well funded" and that provide the logistics and organizing for the Tea Party movement from coast to coast. Media Matters reported that David Koch of Koch Industries was a co-founder of Citizens for a Sound Economy (CSE), the predecessor of FreedomWorks. David Koch was chairman of the board of directors of CSE.
CSE received substantial funding from David Koch of Koch Industries, which is the largest privately-held energy company in the country, and the conservative Koch Family Foundations, which make substantial annual donations to conservative think tanks, advocacy groups, etc. Media Matters reported that the Koch family has given more than $12 million to CSE (predecessor of FreedomWorks) between 1985 and 2002.

Koch Industries has denied specifically funding Freedomworks or tea parties directly, however. The company's director of communications wrote ""Koch companies value free speech and believe it is good to have more Americans engaged in key policy issues. That said, Koch companies, the Koch foundations, Charles Koch and David Koch have no ties to and have never given money to FreedomWorks. In addition, no funding has been provided by Koch companies, the Koch foundations, Charles Koch or David Koch specifically to support the tea parties." Koch's director of communications did affirm, however, that the company funds Americans for Prosperity (AFP). TPM's Lee Fang reports that "AFP was founded in part by the company's Executive Vice President, David Koch. He is currently the chairman of the board of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation."

Media Matters also lists the Sarah Scaife Foundation as having given a total of $2.96 million in funding to FreedomWorks. The Sarah Mellon Scaife Foundation is financed by the Mellon industrial, oil, and banking fortune.

The Claude R. Lambe Foundation, also controlled by the Koch family, has donated more than $3 million to Americans for Prosperity.

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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Plantagenet » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 20:50:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he Tea Party Movement .....Americans for Prosperity....Americans for Prosperity.... Americans for Prosperity (AFP)..... "AFP ....Americans for Prosperity.... Americans for Prosperity.....


Hi Cid:

You are dishonestly smearing the tea party using "guilt by association."

You claim to be posting about the evils of the tea party but your post is actually about some group no one has ever heard of called Americans for Prosperity.

Americans for Prosperity isn't the populist tea party movement no matter how much you pretend it is. :roll:

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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Ludi » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 20:59:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Americans for Prosperity isn't the populist tea party movement no matter how much you pretend it is.



I'm wondering if the populist Tea Party is something completely different from the Tea Party of various websites. Has the Tea Party become something completely different from what it was originally, and how will everyone tell the difference? Especially people in places like Texas (where I am) where the Tea Party seems to be dominated by people who want a Christian nation.

:?:
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby efarmer » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 21:43:52

I have been known to (tongue in cheek) ask people who are keen on de facto Christian theocracy in America which particular Christian religion should have the most power in the government.
I usually get an answer, and it is usually the person's religion, of course.

I asked once if Iran was a theocracy and was told no, "it's a rogue state like North Korea".

Therein lies the danger, you set up a good theocracy, and then the blasted rogues muscle in and
wreck it for everybody.

When you turn the other cheek with the rogues, I hear they slap you on that one too.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby PrestonSturges » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 21:59:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he Tea Party Movement .....Americans for Prosperity....Americans for Prosperity.... Americans for Prosperity (AFP)..... "AFP ....Americans for Prosperity.... Americans for Prosperity.....

Hi Cid:
You are dishonestly smearing the tea party using "guilt by association."
You claim to be posting about the evils of the tea party but your post is actually about some group no one has ever heard of called Americans for Prosperity.
Americans for Prosperity isn't the populist tea party movement no matter how much you pretend it is. :roll:
And yet nobody in the "real" Tea party seem to have any motivation to tell off the Koch brothers or to differ with Beck's conspiracies that Woodrow Wilson is the real monster under our beds.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Jotapay » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 22:00:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'L')ook at the right-wing authoritarians try to tell us they aren't right-wing authoritarians. :lol:


It was a mistake coming back here and looking for something interesting. The reason I grew bored was the child-like drivel above masquerading as erudite conversation.

You said you came from a good family, Cid? Look what the silver spoon does to a person, everyone. A mental midget that can't respond to one point made today. Not one.

He would be speechless if not for the tantrum above. Nice, little one.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Jotapay » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 22:03:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'O')k, but they seem to be claiming to be the Tea Party.


A few are. That's because they want power, like every other corrupt politician. The media is, because they say that you must LABEL something.
All my posts should be rendered to shite as this place has been overrun with enviro-noobs and Gaia-philes who know nothing about how to build a widget and sell it it to people like you and me, even though they need x-amount of widgets to live.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Jotapay » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 22:08:45

I honestly don't give a fuck what some of you in the echo chamber think, so I shouldn't have posted today in an attempt to add some facts to the propaganda. I sometimes fathom how you manage to use that brain to pay rent, actually.

I learned a lot here in the past for which I'm grateful. The ignorant, arrogant folks who never answer those who take the time to make valid counter-points to their points, only to answer with "I know you are but what am I" quality statements are worth less of my time than brown buddies I drop off in the river every morning.

Anywho, carry on.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Cid_Yama » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 22:10:39

What about the headless bodies, Governor? :lol:
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby PrestonSturges » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 22:55:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'W')hat about the headless bodies, Governor? :lol:
People like that become the object of personality cults on the right. I guess a leaky ballpoint pen could get elected in a red state.Can you believe that dingbat is up 19 points in the polls? Make that was. She may win, but the GOP and Fox is going to have to throw her a lot of cash.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Cid_Yama » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 02:24:48

For those progressives who would like to know the history of the progressive movement in more detail, this is an excellent resource.

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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Ludi » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 20:16:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') can't understand a union pushing "comprehensive immigration reform" which only hurts their members. For the record I'm a union worker and very pro union.



Would you explain how immigration reform hurts union members? Thanks.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 21:48:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')An interesting aspect of the Tea Party might be that no matter what the Tea Party does or says, the Tea Party can represent that the Tea Party has not done or said those things. So even though the Tea Party calls for a Christian nation, the Tea Party can claim it does no such thing.

Plausible deniability.

Absolutely right, Ludi. As a libertarian, I was initially excited when I (foolishly, I'll admit) was hoping that the Tea Party might be a focus point to bring about a solid minority of people with libertarian financial principles - who might, as a group, be able to bring SOME sanity to the discussion of "how large a role should government play in a (purportedly) free democratic society?".

Then all the nutjob, antisocial, racist, etc. stuff came out by various voices attracted to the Tea Party. (I will STRONGLY state for the record that NONE of that stuff have anything to do with libertarian principles, which advocate respect and liberty for everyone as long as they don't hurt anybody).

So, it appears to me that in sum, the Tea Party is collectively, people pissed off enough to be openly vocal (and often antisocial) about it, which is unfortunate, since such a motley group will advocate at least as many very bad policies as good ones, IMO. (Gee, that blue comment reminds me of the two major parties in the US -- oh well).
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby americandream » Sat 04 Sep 2010, 05:40:41

Fascism and its twin, feudalism, are the last retreats of privilege, at a time of significant and potentially transformational attack. The fact that both these forms have elements of rough populism, (a crude parochialism in the former utilising nostalgic atavistism and blunt corporatism in the latter overlaid with a substanceless socialism) simply testifies to their opportinistic intent. In effect, they are forms of dictatorship of privilege in much the same way that labour's transitional state, communism, is equally dictatorial.

Ascendency, whether it be by privilege or the commons does not come free and involves some element of duress and compulsion.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Ibon » Sat 04 Sep 2010, 10:12:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'F')ascism and its twin, feudalism, are the last retreats of privilege, at a time of significant and potentially transformational attack. The fact that both these forms have elements of rough populism, (a crude parochialism in the former utilising nostalgic atavistism and blunt corporatism in the latter overlaid with a substanceless socialism) simply testifies to their opportinistic intent. In effect, they are forms of dictatorship of privilege in much the same way that labour's transitional state, communism, is equally dictatorial.

Ascendency, whether it be by privilege or the commons does not come free and involves some element of duress and compulsion.


That was a well said summary. Is there any political form of governance of large groups that can really effectively remove or minimize privilege and the dynamic of oppressed and oppressor that this implies?

As much as I appreciate your academic well written critique and articulate defense of Marxism I am less interested these days in the critique and analysis of what has gone wrong and what ails us. We now have to move forward toward the more interesting and far more challenging direction of solutions and models.

So I humbly invite you to direct your response in this direction. I'm off picking blueberries today in the Cascades so I will check in again later today.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Postby Cid_Yama » Mon 06 Sep 2010, 13:54:51

Progressivism 101: The differences between progressivism and liberalism
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rogressives tend to oppose monopolies and powerful corporate trusts. As a result, they favor trust-busting and regulation in order to check corporate corruption and strength. Some progressives are disappointed with President Obama, who has used markedly liberal policies to end the financial crisis. Instead of directing the Justice Department to launch anti-trust investigations against the nation’s largest financial firms, he has instead favored government bailouts and government takeovers. The more traditional progressive response to banks and companies that are “too big to fail,” would be to make them smaller.

Progressives also favor environmental protection, conservation and stewardship, and energy independence. A liberal solution to high energy costs might be to increase federal spending for a program like the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP). Progressives, however, would “also crack down on price gouging and pass laws better-regulating the oil industry's profiteering and market manipulation tactics.”

Progressives are opposed to the efforts of corporate entities that seek greater influence in government. As previously mentioned, progressives like to strengthen democracy, and generate more power for the public. That’s why the progressive movement was responsible for the constitutional amendment that allowed for the direct election of U.S. Senators (members of the Right should note that Scott Brown [R-MA] could not have been elected without this important contribution). Now, progressives support the public financing of elections, they support direct elections, and they support other efforts to reform government and politics.

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