[PrestonSturges]

Just think how much costs would go down if each MD did not need to have 3 FTEs to haggle with insurance companies, and an insurance person at the insurance company to argue with each of them.

[PrestonSturges]

Listening to VA AG Cuccinelli who is suing aver health care. Much talk about the Founding Fathers and "tyranny" and comparing Obama to King George III. So he's not advocating violence, but many of the people that hear him won't fail to draw that conclusion.

Cucci is a dangerous tool - he believes the government should have essentially no power. What he does NOT say is who he thinks should be in charge - the CHURCH. Because he is one of those oh so sincere religious nuts that have been filing off the creepy craziness for the last 15 years.

But anyway...... the reason big business hates health care reform is that they want to hold employees hostage. If they can get health care, they will go start their own businesses and challenge the status quo. This is not acceptable to business or the churches.

[PrestonSturges]

Cucci explained that although the Constitution gives the government no power but the Founding Fathers also believed in Natural Law, which lets the religious people invoke sweeping powers that the Founders "all believed in" but conveniently forgot to write down.

This clowns leading the charge against health care reform.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'E')R ($986 avg)

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '
')My friend fell and broke 3 fingers this morning and went to the ER to get them taped up. She was in and out in 45 min.

[Roy]

Where is this free health insurance? Is that a Missouri thing? My ancestors have lived in Missouri since 1803, near Lexington. Maybe I should move up there... LOL.

I've been employed full time almost without interruption since I was 18 years old. I've had a job since I started delivering newspapers at age 13.

In that time, I have NEVER gotten free health insurance. I either didn't have it (up to about age 26) or paid handsomely for it, no matter who I worked for, be it state government or private enterprise. And every year without fail, that cost has increased.

I pay over $450 per month to cover myself, wife, and two kids. When my last employer was about to go belly up, and before I found a new job, I investigated cobra plans. A cool $1300 per month was what that would have run. A little bit less than I would have received in unemployment for a month. That was a non-starter.

I go to the doctor once a year and am fortunate to be very healthy compared to my peer group. I eat right, exercise regularly, and benefit from having normal blood pressure, cholesterol etc. Most guys I know that are my age (42) are on 1 or more prescription meds, overweight, out of shape, and basically human wreckage when it comes to their physical health. Maybe if they got off their asses and stopped eating crap that wouldn't be the case. A big part of the health issues that plague Americans are a result of their lifestyles and diets in my opinion. Why should I subsidize their poor choices? If that argument can be used against tobacco users, why not against lazy fat asses too? Probably because they make up the majority of the US population, but I digress.

Can I afford to pay more for health insurance? I suppose so but it would mean cutting back even more. With the economy in the crapper, inflation in necessities, and flat or declining wages (YAY FREE TRADE!), I don't see how average Americans can afford to pay more, unless forced by means of legal penalties if they don't.

[Cloud9]

Teachers get free health care. Yeah right. I have been on the county insurance committee for the past two decades. For the past thirty years, the county has paid for my health insurance. My family plan was paid for by me. For years we geared the deductibles on the richer plans to help subsidize the deductibles on the poor plans. The theory was that administrators and teachers could better afford their plans than could secretaries, janitors and bus drivers. We have bounced the major insurers off of each other using competition to keep the overall price down. We have one of the richest insurance plans in the state.

While the plan was ostensibly paid for by the county it was and is part of our salary package. People understood that they received less salary in order to get a richer insurance plan.

Two things have come together to wreak havoc on our premiums. We have had a half dozen cancer patients that have individually run up more than and million dollars in health care costs. Last year the pay out was about 103% of the premiums collected. The county tax base is being destroyed by plummeting real estate prices.

All of us are receiving stealth salary cuts. Stipends are being cut out and we are working longer hours for the same money. And, each of us this year will be required to pay more of our health care costs because the county can no longer afford to pick up the tab. The bottom line is that free insurance never was free. It was part of the employee benefit package.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'I')f they have to pay a fine or tax because of the health coverage I get they will alter the health coverage I get to avoid the fine or tax to the greatest extent they can.

[Pops]

Thanks for explaining, Tanada.

I don't blame you for wanting to avoid paying income tax on the value of your plan, that's a nice perk. If you don't mind me asking, how much does your employer pay? Since the "Cadillac Tax" doesn't kick in till $27,500 a year (family) it's gotta be a doozie.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'I')f my health coverage plan gets classified as excessive by some bureaucrat somewhere in the chain of events as the new Federal mandates take effect then my employer will have the choice of changing my plan to make it compliant with the Federal standards laid out in the law or accepting taxes/fines to maintain the non-compliant plan. Nobody I know of running any company anywhere is going to keep a non-compliant plan and pay fines/taxes on it when they can restructure the coverage to be compliant and avoid those fines/taxes.

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '
')Overhead costs of government health programs are less than half the health insurance companies.

But you knew that, didn't you?

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')hanks for explaining, Tanada.

I don't blame you for wanting to avoid paying income tax on the value of your plan, that's a nice perk. If you don't mind me asking, how much does your employer pay? Since the "Cadillac Tax" doesn't kick in till $27,500 a year (family) it's gotta be a doozie.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '
')
I go to the doctor once a year and am fortunate to be very healthy compared to my peer group. I eat right, exercise regularly, and benefit from having normal blood pressure, cholesterol etc. Most guys I know that are my age (42) are on 1 or more prescription meds, overweight, out of shape, and basically human wreckage when it comes to their physical health. Maybe if they got off their asses and stopped eating crap that wouldn't be the case. A big part of the health issues that plague Americans are a result of their lifestyles and diets in my opinion. Why should I subsidize their poor choices?

[Cloud9]

If you find your self working for an organization that has a health plan that is deemed rich by the feds, under the new law your organization will be taxed / fined for having such a rich plan. The cheap and dirty solution is to degrade the plan to the point that it is no longer deemed to be a rich plan.

Inasmuch as your health plan was part of your pay / benefit package, the degradation will have the net effect of reducing your salary.

[Pops]

I read the rate is linked to inflation + 1% but I couldn't tell right away what measure of inflation.

If it is the CPI and not the cost of health care, by the time the tax kicks in in 2018 (?) every plan will be taxable.

Maybe those panty-waists had a plan after all...

[Ludi]

Seems like it's always the most privileged folks who whine the most about losing a tiny bit of privilege. Not having ever had health insurance provided by an employer (always paid for it myself), and being limited to the state Risk pool (very expensive) for the past decade, to see you spoiled folks whining on about this, is, I suppose "amusing."

<<<<<< freak

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', 'C')an drivers be forced to buy automobile insurance?

[Plantagenet]

Obama Care is going to be just like Obama Jobs....A BIG socialized failure.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')bama Care is going to be just like Obama Jobs....A BIG socialized failure.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', '
')You have a choice to not own an automobile. But just being ALIVE you are forced to buy medical insurance under Obama/Pelosi. It's a flagrant violation of freedom! Sean Hannity is a great American!