[Cloud9]

The American people did not vote for the Health Care Bill. The Democratic majority in congress concocted and voted for a bill that had the misnomer of health care. This was apparently done to flesh out a wet dream that has been incubating in the minds of the left for years. No doubt the President’s support of the bill lay in his opportunity to best his arch enemies the Clintons.

What purports to be health care is an adulteration cobbled together in smoke filled rooms that plunders the American people for the benefit of the American medical industry. It does nothing to make health care more available or cheaper. It does force many millions more to pay into the coffers of the insurance industry.

Had congress really intended to do something about health care, they would have subsidized an increase in the number of doctors, nurses and clinics.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'I') can't speak for others, but my dislike of "Obamacare" is this:
I pay my insurance premium, non-payers do not. ... Therefore, I've already paid for the non-payer's treatment, as well as my own.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'N')ow 70% of voters in Missouri rejected plan.

[PrestonSturges]

1) Health insurance CEO admitted in Henry Waxmans hearing that they are so inefficient they will go broke anyway without the government sending them patients. They admitted they were on track to sucking down 20% of the GDP and still going broke.

2) Yes we (you) ALREADY pay for the uninsured, just in a grossly inefficient and lethal way.

3) The Missouri vote represented 23% of voters, who turned out 2:1 GOP:Dem to vote in the GOP primary, so the "No" vote comprised about 12% of registered voters. Whoopdie-doo.

4) Other countries with socialized medicine spend half what we do, live much longer.

5) The fact that there is a deduction for dependent children does not "force" anyone to have a kid, the mortgage deduction does not "force" anyone to buy a house. Go threaten rebellion to remove those deductions why don't you?

[basil_hayden]

Pops -

As far as I understand, it's not "instead of", it will be "in addition to". It's irrelevant as to where one goes to receive treatment.

It's just another "revenue stream" for our tax and spend government. We don't need another hand in our wallets. It's already being covered.

[ian807]

Here's the deal. Other western democracies already have socialized medicine. It's not perfect but it works, and magically they pay for it, probably because costs are rather less.

So, instead of copying a working sensible system like Canada's, partisanship on both sides forced the current half-assed nonsense we call a "health care" bill. Instead of being "forced to pay for insurance" through taxation, we're going to make it a bit more explicit.

The end result is the same. Eventually the bill gets rewritten more sensibly. Nobody, certainly not the republicans, are going to get rid of it now.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', '
')So, instead of copying a working sensible system like Canada's, partisanship on both sides forced the current half-assed nonsense we call a "health care" bill. Instead of being "forced to pay for insurance" through taxation, we're going to make it a bit more explicit.

The end result is the same.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'A')s far as I understand, it's not "instead of", it will be "in addition to".

It's irrelevant as to where one goes to receive treatment.

It's just another "revenue stream" for our tax and spend government.

We don't need another hand in our wallets. It's already being covered.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'N')ow 70% of voters in Missouri rejected plan.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'A')s far as throwing away money and changing lives, it's not nearly as harmful as the Iraq war and the tax givaways to the rich

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'I')f they have to pay a fine or tax because of the health coverage I get they will alter the health coverage I get to avoid the fine or tax to the greatest extent they can.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '
')Why do I need another government hand in my pocket, especially the most inefficient hand ever devised on the face of the planet? Me and the non-payer will not get any better medical tratment, but it will cost us both more. Some bureaucrat will be spending the difference on hookers and coke.

[PrestonSturges]

I've never heard anyone who is actually sick complaining about "Obamacare."

People who aren't sick don't spend weeks on the phone trying to get their life savings procedures paid for. It does not save money to have several people working full time to deny payment to someone sick. They are perfectly willing to spend hundreds of dollars to deny an eighty dollar claim.

I have no idea how opponents of health care reform think things work, or what their health care fantasy world looks like.

In coutries with single payer insurance, Americans outside the system may end up paying cash - like $50 for an xray, $120 for an MRI, $100 to have a broken leg set. Because once you get rid of the whole bureaucracy that exists to deny coverage, costs come down.

Of course there will always be those convinced that this is a give away to black people, and they'd rather see their white grandma die of kidney failure than imagine some picananny getting a free polio vaccine.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'I')'ve never heard anyone who is actually sick complaining about "Obamacare."

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'ll complain! It isn't a single payer plan, and it doesn't help me. I'm already in my state Risk Pool, so I don't qualify for the Exchange Pool, as far as I can determine. I can't determine that this "healthcare reform" helps me at all. So my complaint is the law doesn't go far enough in reforming the system.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '
')When I see Newt talking about government "taking over one sixth of the economy" I guess Newt is just senile or one of his whores gave him syphilis of the brain.

[PrestonSturges]

All this hysteria is really about whether we can keep spending 25% of the budget on defense and have people dying of preventable diseases. Cut Social Security so we can have 11 carrier groups?

And it's not like a clear choice either - if your populace is illiterate, sick, malnourished, and lack the minimum number of teeth, they can't make a good army anyway.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', '[')b]What purports to be health care is an adulteration cobbled together in smoke filled rooms that plunders the American people for the benefit of the American medical industry. It does nothing to make health care more available or cheaper. It does force many millions more to pay into the coffers of the insurance industry.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', '[')b]What purports to be health care is an adulteration cobbled together in smoke filled rooms that plunders the American people for the benefit of the American medical industry. It does nothing to make health care more available or cheaper. It does force many millions more to pay into the coffers of the insurance industry.