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Pets, Redeux

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

How long do you think your lifestyle can be sustained?

1 year.
1
No votes
2 years.
2
No votes
3-5 years.
4
No votes
6-10 years.
2
No votes
11-20 years.
2
No votes
21-50 years.
3
No votes
51-100 years.
0
0%
101-200 years.
1
No votes
201-500 years.
0
0%
501-1,000 years.
0
0%
1,001-5,000 years.
0
0%
5,001-10,000 years.
0
0%
10,001-50,000 years.
0
0%
50,001-100,000 years.
1
No votes
Indefinitely.
1
No votes
 
Total votes : 17

Pets, Redeux

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 01:24:47

Pets are a psychological replacement for the denatured lifestyles of the 21st century.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lternatively, consider the cumulative environmental impact of our furry friends. The US, which tops the list for both cat and dog ownership in absolute terms, is home to over 76 million felines and 61 million canines. Taking the estimated cat population for the top 10 cat-owning countries, the Vales calculate that the land required just to feed these cats is over 400,000 square kilometres. That's equivalent to one-and-a-half times the area of New Zealand. A further five New Zealands are required to feed the pooches living in the top 10 dog-owning countries - which, perhaps surprisingly, does not include the UK.
Image

Then there are the other environmental impacts of pets. Every year, for example, the UK's 7.7 million cats kill over 188 million wild animals (Mammal Review, vol 33, p 174). That works out at about 25 birds, mammals and frogs per cat. Similar figures have emerged from surveys in the US and Australia. There is also a knock-on effect because cats feasting on wildlife can leave wild predators such as hawks and weasels short of food.
link$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')here Does the Wheat Gluten Supply Come From?:
It should be noted that the wheat gluten used in most pet foods is the same quality wheat gluten used in human foods. It is sourced from the same countries, the same suppliers and inspected to meet the same high human food quality control standards. The U. S. is the largest user of wheat gluten in total, and our country's use of the ingredient in human and pet foods exceeds what is produced domestically by the agricultural industry. As a result, 80% of the U.S. demand for wheat gluten is fulfilled from Europe and Asia due to limited supplies in the U.S., where the remaining 20% is sourced.
link

Image$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')mount of land (in square feet) needed to produce the annual food requirement for:
• Large dog: 118,500
• Medium sized dog: 90,600
• Average Vietnamese citizen: 81,890
• Average Ethiopian citizen: 72,310
• Cat: 16,100
• Hamster: 1,500
• Goldfish: 36
link
Last edited by BlisteredWhippet on Mon 09 Nov 2009, 00:22:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby timmac » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 01:57:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'T')hat being said, I am here to convince no one particular that visiting this site is a waste of time and energy. To that end I ceased my involvement with it and reinvested my time and energy into things which I believe are more rewarding and practical uses for time, like basic education and fostering sustainable living relationships with people in real life. I would invite you to do the same even though I cannot recommend the choice for anyone who values happiness over knowledge. The two are unfortunately incompatible. To be happy is to be ignorant.

For example, the period of time between initiating a search for information and actually finding useful information on Peakoil.com. At least in the interim you might experience hope. But like a rat in the maze, satisfaction is fleeting.

So without further ado, I am reiterating my original argument, for its own sake, namely that: Pets are a reflection of our disembodiment from ecological reality.

I am way, way smarter than you. and that Pet owners are childish, stupid people.
Yours Truly,
Blisteredwhippet

Well you won't be missed if you stop posting here, and your part about pet owners is shallow and a stupid remark as well, I will bet my golden retriever is much smarter than you any day of the year... :lol:
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 15:00:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', 'W')ell you won't be missed if you stop posting here, and your part about pet owners is shallow and a stupid remark as well, I will bet my golden retriever is much smarter than you any day of the year... :lol:
Golden Retrievers are on the low end of the dog I.Q. curve. Sounds like a perfect companion for you. Cheers.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 15:49:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'P')ets are a psychological replacement for the denatured lifestyles of the 21st century.
Pets? They have existed for at least 10 000 years. They are common across most cultures.

I find your analysis somewhat lacking to be honest.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby hillsidedigger » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 16:22:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Amount of land (in square feet) needed to produce the annual food requirement for:
• Large dog: 118,500
• Medium sized dog: 90,600
• Average Vietnamese citizen: 81,890
• Average Ethiopian citizen: 72,310
• Cat: 16,100"
This chart shows that pet dog and cat populations should be minimized although like all these other situations, it will be self-corrected.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Mon 09 Nov 2009, 10:58:02, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added quote notations.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 16:33:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Amount of land (in square feet) needed to produce the annual food requirement for:
• Large dog: 118,500
• Medium sized dog: 90,600
• Average Vietnamese citizen: 81,890
• Average Ethiopian citizen: 72,310
• Cat: 16,100"
This chart shows that pet dog and cat populations should be minimized although like all these other situations, it will be self-corrected.
How do you factor in the acreage of vietnamese when dog is already in their menu? ;)
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 19:19:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'P')ets are a psychological replacement for the denatured lifestyles of the 21st century.
Pets? They have existed for at least 10 000 years. They are common across most cultures. I find your analysis somewhat lacking to be honest.
What does one have to do with the other? Historically, pet ownership was not the norm.

As for the analysis, I know I'm right because I've done the research, which I've pointed out to the board through the links in my post. Before the research, I had an intuition, which was subsequently proven true. Its convenient being massively intelligent sometimes.

I like what Purina (the pet food corporation states on their site when they say "a pet and their human" implying the subordination of roles.

Its doubtful that, 10,000 years or even 100 years ago pets were wholly fed cereal grains and meat formulated to keep them constipated to the degree they only took one crap a day.

Its also interesting that Purina used to make its dog food alongside its human food, and I'll bet from the factory floor, most people couldn't tell which was which.

The question is, as a result of the research indicated above, will people be able to make the correllation between their pets and resource consumption? To me, the answer is obvious: they will not.

People, I have found, do not change. They do not incorporate new information. They do not objectively evaluate the paradigms in which their behaviors form, or execute actions which imply an altruistic, sacrificial, or responsible motive. In almost all cases, humans are ignorant, stupid, and simple creatures without an inclination to rationality. Feel free to assume that you are an exceptional case.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 19:26:53

Turn off that computer and save some coal, BW.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby Pops » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 19:32:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'T')o that end I ceased my involvement with [this site] and reinvested my time and energy ... But like a rat in the maze, satisfaction is fleeting...
And here you are back where you started.

Funny how often that happens. [smilie=cat.gif]
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 20:09:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'A')nd here you are back where you started. Funny how often that happens. [smilie=cat.gif]
Not often as I pointed out. Over the past year I visited very infrequently, usually while stoned, and found no net increase in value in any area whatsoever.

The problem with this site is that it has a very poor [valuable information] to [time spent] ratio. Its design is positively Soviet, diabolically designed to amplify the noise and decrease the signal.

If people actually believed the premises that they imply in their discourses, I doubt they would waste so much time. As such, I believe they do. As you are.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby timmac » Sun 08 Nov 2009, 20:44:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'P')eople, I have found, do not change. They do not incorporate new information. They do not objectively evaluate the paradigms in which their behaviors form, or execute actions which imply an altruistic, sacrificial, or responsible motive. In almost all cases, humans are ignorant, stupid, and simple creatures without an inclination to rationality. Feel free to assume that you are an exceptional case.
And at what level of stupid are you, your post so far on this thread leads me to beleave my golden retriever is much more intelligent than you.. You need to go buy a puppy and get a life.. :mrgreen:
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby Jotapay » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 00:45:02

I find this post to be ridiculous. Dogs were made to accomplish feats which humans could not. They are tools by extension. To suggest that we would be better off without them is anti-human, IMO.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby Jotapay » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 00:48:18

This propaganda which has surfaced recently, which condemns pets, is just another way that environmentalism has been co-opted by TPTB to control our lives. They want to tax us for everything we do, including owning pets. That is why this has been thrust into the mainstream, corporate-controlled media now.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby Jotapay » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 00:52:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'N')ot often as I pointed out. Over the past year I visited very infrequently, usually while stoned, and found no net increase in value in any area whatsoever.

The problem with this site is that it has a very poor [valuable information] to [time spent] ratio. Its design is positively Soviet, diabolically designed to amplify the noise and decrease the signal.

If people actually believed the premises that they imply in their discourses, I doubt they would waste so much time. As such, I believe they do. As you are.


So you admit to being stoned while telling others how to run their lives. Kindly f*ck off, you tosser.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby mercurygirl » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 01:39:43

To a human, everything is a tool.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') used this premise in an experiment on this site several years ago to see if there was any way I could convince people on a relatively tangential subject in resource extraction to change their ways. I failed.
No, you didn't (well, not totally). I'm one person who gave it some serious thought. Strangely enough, I came here a few days ago to revisit it, maybe what prompted me was one of the relevant articles. I haven't been around much either.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') do not believe in a deterministic universe, but I do think that this site is a waste of people's time and energy. I do think there is nothing anyone can do to change the direction we are headed spirituality, intellectually, or even thermodynamically. We exist in a biological world governed by similar laws that govern the models of cellular automata.
Agreed.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat being said, I am here to convince no one particular that visiting this site is a waste of time and energy. To that end I ceased my involvement with it and reinvested my time and energy into things which I believe are more rewarding and practical uses for time, like basic education and fostering sustainable living relationships with people in real life. I would invite you to do the same even though I cannot recommend the choice for anyone who values happiness over knowledge. The two are unfortunately incompatible. To be happy is to be ignorant.
Disagree in general regarding knowledge. There is a price that comes with knowledge, but the best knowledge brings happiness, or peace with insecurity.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ets are a reflection of our disembodiment from ecological reality.
Agreed.

Nice to see you again, BW.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 10:21:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '
')...usually while stoned


That explains a lot.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 20:26:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'I') find this post to be ridiculous. Dogs were made to accomplish feats which humans could not. They are tools by extension. To suggest that we would be better off without them is anti-human, IMO.


Well, if I must reiterate previous posts, I think there are exceptional cases, and they are not the majority.

We need bomb sniffing dogs at the border.

We do not need poop-sniffing dogs barking in the middle of the night at the border to my property.

People covet what they see (hear, or read) every day. What propaganda are you referring to anyway? The incessant chorus that to be happy, we need pets? Or that pet owners are happy fulfilled people? That a child needs a pet to learn "responsibility"?

Because the recent statistical and scientific analysis by two individuals certainly isn't propaganda. Its simply research. Its facts. The qualitative inference might be goddamn pinko communist, but quantitatively, you can't touch it.

Furthermore, if you think that dogs are tools by extension you reinforce my prior contention that humans tend to view animal life as objects as a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Therein lies the seeds of our whole existential dilemma which presents itself as a resource/population problem.
Last edited by BlisteredWhippet on Tue 10 Nov 2009, 02:23:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 20:29:09

Is having human babies better than having pets, I wonder?

I have too many pets* but no babies. Several of the pets have just shown up on the doorstep. I don't have the heart to kill them, I'm afraid. If someone put a baby on my doorstep I would probably want to keep it too. :(

*7 cats
1 dog
5 sheep (not so much pets as a tax dodge)
4 turkeys
8 chickens

But I'm pretty darn stupid and childish. Oh to be massively intelligent! How much less happy I would be!
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 20:34:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '
')...usually while stoned


That explains a lot.


Anyone who doesn't get high is a damned fool.
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Re: Pets, Redeux

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 09 Nov 2009, 20:42:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '
')Anyone who doesn't get high is a damned fool.


How can you criticize people for having pets as some kind of emotional crutch when you need drugs to get by?

You can make carrying capacity arguments if you like but lay off the holier than thou crap.
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