The passing of the Age of Oil as we have known it, like the passing of any large idea, will have its recognizable effects, both immediately and over time. One reason we pay so little close attention to the sphere of energy production is that it has always been there and many of us presumed it always would be. As it disappears, its primal importance will be much clearer--in the same way that some people think they have put their parents out of their lives only to learn differently when the day comes to bury them.
There is a sadness, or a shame really, of realizing how much more we could have done. We, all of us in the overly-developed countries, have participated in something of a binge, most of a hundred years of seemingly limitless prosperity and ease. We may have had some idea that it was a bit of a binge and that the earth couldn't really support it for long, but aside from the easy tradeoffs, we didn't do much to stop it. We sure didn't turn our lives around to stop it, and we don't want to change. This tidal force of biology continues to drive us, even when we know (as no lemming can) that we are seriously screwing up. I think our shame is the result of knowing we have so cavalierly defaced and marred the earth in the process, and most assuredly compromised the future of the generations to follow. The Indian never trusted the "White Man," as he appeared to the Indian as quite presumptuous; a quality they never fathomed. How could anyone presume to improve upon Nature, much less, out live it?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')The white man seeks to conquer nature, to bend it to his will and to use it wastefully until it's all gone and then he simply moves on, leaving the waste behind him and looking for new places to take. The whole white race is a monster who is always hungry and what he eats is land."
--Chiksika, elder brother of Tecumseh, March 19, 1779
PeakOil is You
Peak Oil & Morning in America
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Peak Oil & Morning in America
by MonteQuest » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 02:26:21
Of course all white men are not like that, but enough of them were that the Indian could not know differently. If the mass of man can think of a plausible, or even implausible reason to discount peak-oil, he will. When Ronald Reagan ran for president against Carter in 1980, he made his shrillest attacks on the notion that we were living in an "age of limits." The energy crisis of the 1970's was interesting; for a brief moment it actually unnerved us. But our tentative move towards alternative energies has always been half-hearted. By 1987 Americans alone had spent more than a hundred million dollars on leaf blowers to blow leaves rather than rake them. Even though the shadows are lengthening, to the over-leveraged, debt-encrusted ChinaMart shoppers, it somehow still seems like "morning in America."
Last edited by MonteQuest on Fri 17 Nov 2006, 01:44:46, edited 2 times in total.
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by chargrove » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 05:28:30
I'm fond of the old Hopi Indian legend (one that's over 50,000 years old) where a long time ago, mankind was separated into four skin colors and sent off in four different directions, with each color being a guardian of one of the four elements.
The "red" man would be the guardians of Earth, they'd learn the ways of the earth's plants and animals, what foods could be eaten and what plants were medicinal, and how to live in balance with the earth.
The "black" man would be the guardians of Water, they'd learn the powerful teachings of water and be humbled by them, living in places where water would be the greatest of treasures.
The "yellow" man would be the guardians of Wind, they'd learn about air and breathing and its involvement in our spirit, and ways of motion that are at one with the wind.
And the "white" man would be the guardians of Fire, they'd learn how to work with fire and make it the center of everything they do. They will be like the fire, as they will both move and consume as they go, but this movement and destruction will also be the force that reunites the people of all four elements together again as one.
It's said that once the people of all four elements come back together again, the lessons of each can be shared, and a great civilization will be created, as we end our cycle of the animal and begin our cycle of the true human being.
Whether you believe legends like this or not, it's still interesting how well they reflect some of the principles our various cultures are based on.
The "red" man would be the guardians of Earth, they'd learn the ways of the earth's plants and animals, what foods could be eaten and what plants were medicinal, and how to live in balance with the earth.
The "black" man would be the guardians of Water, they'd learn the powerful teachings of water and be humbled by them, living in places where water would be the greatest of treasures.
The "yellow" man would be the guardians of Wind, they'd learn about air and breathing and its involvement in our spirit, and ways of motion that are at one with the wind.
And the "white" man would be the guardians of Fire, they'd learn how to work with fire and make it the center of everything they do. They will be like the fire, as they will both move and consume as they go, but this movement and destruction will also be the force that reunites the people of all four elements together again as one.
It's said that once the people of all four elements come back together again, the lessons of each can be shared, and a great civilization will be created, as we end our cycle of the animal and begin our cycle of the true human being.
Whether you believe legends like this or not, it's still interesting how well they reflect some of the principles our various cultures are based on.
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by bentstrider » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 06:31:33
And those of us that have a problem with most peoples wasteful lifestyle are labeled as Communists, Socialists, Hippies and are hauled off in Crown Vic.
I say buy only what you need to keep yourself amused.
This whole concept of "keeping up with the Joneses" will be keeping up all the way to the point when "which jones do we kill and eat first?".
On the lighter side. I'm going to find a way to make mp3 players out hempseed and recycled electronic parts.
Sell these along with organic based batteries, and I'll be the P.I.M.P. of the post peak world.
Rolling down the street in Caddy outfitted for 100% hemp ethanol.
While all those careless prissies of the past now look on, bedraggled as they are.
When you succeed in the post peak world, you'll be able to kick the next one in it's balls.
I say buy only what you need to keep yourself amused.
This whole concept of "keeping up with the Joneses" will be keeping up all the way to the point when "which jones do we kill and eat first?".
On the lighter side. I'm going to find a way to make mp3 players out hempseed and recycled electronic parts.
Sell these along with organic based batteries, and I'll be the P.I.M.P. of the post peak world.
Rolling down the street in Caddy outfitted for 100% hemp ethanol.
While all those careless prissies of the past now look on, bedraggled as they are.
When you succeed in the post peak world, you'll be able to kick the next one in it's balls.
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by Oilgood » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 06:36:32
Dear Chargrove,
I have read that legend, and other Hopi prophecies. They actually say that white man was either going to be the "True White Brother" who would bring a spiritual golden age to the Americas and unite the world to form one great civilization, or the false white brother who would appear no different from the True White Brother, but would be cunning, ruthless, greedy, decietful, ignorant, and would have forgotten all about the stone that was given to him. It is said that the false white brother would bring destruction and misery to the Native Americans and to the environment. The Hopi were apparently hoping that the White Man would return to them the lost piece of the Red man's tablets (this would shown them that he was the True White Brother), but that apparently never happened.
Mind you, these prophecies have only been revealed in recent decades, and in terms of authenticity, should be taken with a grain of salt. They seem to be moral and political messages more than anything; a (rather futile) cry for justice and public attention from the Hopi, as is presumably the case with such "newly revealed" prophecies from other Native American tribes.
I have read that legend, and other Hopi prophecies. They actually say that white man was either going to be the "True White Brother" who would bring a spiritual golden age to the Americas and unite the world to form one great civilization, or the false white brother who would appear no different from the True White Brother, but would be cunning, ruthless, greedy, decietful, ignorant, and would have forgotten all about the stone that was given to him. It is said that the false white brother would bring destruction and misery to the Native Americans and to the environment. The Hopi were apparently hoping that the White Man would return to them the lost piece of the Red man's tablets (this would shown them that he was the True White Brother), but that apparently never happened.
Mind you, these prophecies have only been revealed in recent decades, and in terms of authenticity, should be taken with a grain of salt. They seem to be moral and political messages more than anything; a (rather futile) cry for justice and public attention from the Hopi, as is presumably the case with such "newly revealed" prophecies from other Native American tribes.
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by big_rc » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 13:02:55
Has anybody here ever heard of a Native American (I forgot which tribe) prophecy known as the "Cleansing" or "Great Cleansing"? Supposedly, it is a time of great tribulation where the earth lays a little whup ass on humanity for all of the evil done to her. If anybody has a link or some info, please post. Thanks.
Simon's Law: Everything put together falls apart sooner or later.
I don't think of all the misery, but of all the beauty that still remains.--Anne Frank
I don't think of all the misery, but of all the beauty that still remains.--Anne Frank
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by TrueKaiser » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 15:35:08
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', 'H')as anybody here ever heard of a Native American (I forgot which tribe) prophecy known as the "Cleansing" or "Great Cleansing"? Supposedly, it is a time of great tribulation where the earth lays a little whup ass on humanity for all of the evil done to her. If anybody has a link or some info, please post. Thanks.
i heard about it back during the y2k scare. suposidly everything harmfull man has made will instantly gain intellegance and attack people (insert scene where waffle irons attack the house wife. the computer and the tv print 'die humans' etc.)
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by holmes » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 16:52:00
http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prop ... arrick.htm
The Majority of the hippies in the 60's were great people. It is just one more BIG FAT LIE and Propaganda from the fear based Yo-ne-gis'
The real hippies were tough and lived close to the land.
There was a problem with the overuse of drugs which is not good.
But that was a fringe part of the hippies in the 60's . Most jsut drank beer and smoked some Pot.
POT is another thing. I say grow it all. Its a natural insecticide and medicinal.
Instead of using massive amounts of oil based insecticides grow some SKUNK.
I have really over the past 5 years lost all respect for the mainstream white man or the other races for that matter. He has nothing to teach except consumption and greedy selfish knowledge. And how to get a fat face and a oil based gut. Have you noticed this trend?
most males in the US have this double paunchy chins and this protruberance at the wasteline. Women too. Girls have it at ayoung age. Fat!
And not saying i dont like my $$$. But come on there is a seedy culture associated with it.
so adddicted to oil are we!
there is no custom or really any tradition that does not involve Yo-ne-gis' greed.
THe hippies of today seem to be lost. They have to straighten up and evolve.
The Indians were warriors and tougher than any that includes our Navy seals. (Walking barefoot from day one? Hunting with a bow close range?)
Ive done it and man is walking barefoot through the mountains TOUGH!
Look up the Rainbow warrior prophecy thats the only one i know about a great cleansing.
Good post Monte.
Tecumseh was a great man.
The Majority of the hippies in the 60's were great people. It is just one more BIG FAT LIE and Propaganda from the fear based Yo-ne-gis'
The real hippies were tough and lived close to the land.
There was a problem with the overuse of drugs which is not good.
But that was a fringe part of the hippies in the 60's . Most jsut drank beer and smoked some Pot.
POT is another thing. I say grow it all. Its a natural insecticide and medicinal.
Instead of using massive amounts of oil based insecticides grow some SKUNK.
I have really over the past 5 years lost all respect for the mainstream white man or the other races for that matter. He has nothing to teach except consumption and greedy selfish knowledge. And how to get a fat face and a oil based gut. Have you noticed this trend?
most males in the US have this double paunchy chins and this protruberance at the wasteline. Women too. Girls have it at ayoung age. Fat!
And not saying i dont like my $$$. But come on there is a seedy culture associated with it.
so adddicted to oil are we!
there is no custom or really any tradition that does not involve Yo-ne-gis' greed.
THe hippies of today seem to be lost. They have to straighten up and evolve.
The Indians were warriors and tougher than any that includes our Navy seals. (Walking barefoot from day one? Hunting with a bow close range?)
Ive done it and man is walking barefoot through the mountains TOUGH!
Look up the Rainbow warrior prophecy thats the only one i know about a great cleansing.
Good post Monte.
Tecumseh was a great man.
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by Madpaddy » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 17:29:52
Montequest,
Don't beat yourselves up too much. Look at the madness going on in Ireland.
http://www.taraskryne.org/
The lunatics want to build a motorway through the Hill of Tara - the seat of the ancient Irish High Kings. We don't deserve to live.
Don't beat yourselves up too much. Look at the madness going on in Ireland.
http://www.taraskryne.org/
The lunatics want to build a motorway through the Hill of Tara - the seat of the ancient Irish High Kings. We don't deserve to live.
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by smiley » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 20:24:52
I wouldn't be too harsh on the white men. I'm sure that if the Indian population was allowed to grow that they would have run into sustainability issues as well. The Maya's had their share as well and they weren't white. We're just more advanced and efficient in exhausting our environment.
Sustainability has been a recurrent problem in human history. I think it all has to do with understanding the long term consequences of one's actions. Although the Indians are very close to nature I don't think they have this level of understanding.
There appear to be two structural barriers to this kind of understanding.
One is that we measure everything by our lives and inevitable deaths. Our death is an event horizon, blocking everything beyond. When you decide to do something you base your decision on the consequences of this decision during your lifetime. If you look at processes around you, you scale them to your own life expectancy. More than 50 years might as well be an infinity. As a result of that thinking we get never a warning more than one generation before a problem actually surfaces.
Another fundamental problem is our failure to grasp problems involving scale. I, as a single person, can do little harm to this planet. However when there is more of me doing the same thing, the amount of harm grows proportionally. One of me jumping up and down will not cause more than a mild annoyance from my neighbor; one billion of me jumping up and down can cause an earthquake which can level a city.
What we perhaps need are futurologists. People who are peering into the future and plotting a path for mankind. It is absurd that we've got millions of historians looking at the past and no one looking forward. It is like sailing a tallship through treacherous waters whilst facing the stern.
Sustainability has been a recurrent problem in human history. I think it all has to do with understanding the long term consequences of one's actions. Although the Indians are very close to nature I don't think they have this level of understanding.
There appear to be two structural barriers to this kind of understanding.
One is that we measure everything by our lives and inevitable deaths. Our death is an event horizon, blocking everything beyond. When you decide to do something you base your decision on the consequences of this decision during your lifetime. If you look at processes around you, you scale them to your own life expectancy. More than 50 years might as well be an infinity. As a result of that thinking we get never a warning more than one generation before a problem actually surfaces.
Another fundamental problem is our failure to grasp problems involving scale. I, as a single person, can do little harm to this planet. However when there is more of me doing the same thing, the amount of harm grows proportionally. One of me jumping up and down will not cause more than a mild annoyance from my neighbor; one billion of me jumping up and down can cause an earthquake which can level a city.
What we perhaps need are futurologists. People who are peering into the future and plotting a path for mankind. It is absurd that we've got millions of historians looking at the past and no one looking forward. It is like sailing a tallship through treacherous waters whilst facing the stern.
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by Laurasia » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 22:10:33
I think there's a magazine called 'Futurist" where people who have thought these things through (better than me) write articles and write up probable and possible futures. And I, the unabashed New Ager, look up to, and read stuff by, Peter Russell and Barbara Marx Hubbard, both of whom are considered futurists. The activist Starhawk also has given us a rather positive future scenario with cities turned into gardens (the citizens having taken pickaxes to the paved roads, and planted veggies instead).
Regards,
L.
PS dont ask me for book-titles, cos I never remember book-titles!
Regards,
L.
PS dont ask me for book-titles, cos I never remember book-titles!
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by MonteQuest » Sun 12 Dec 2004, 00:50:43
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '
')What we perhaps need are futurologists. People who are peering into the future and plotting a path for mankind. It is absurd that we've got millions of historians looking at the past and no one looking forward. It is like sailing a tallship through treacherous waters whilst facing the stern.
')What we perhaps need are futurologists. People who are peering into the future and plotting a path for mankind. It is absurd that we've got millions of historians looking at the past and no one looking forward. It is like sailing a tallship through treacherous waters whilst facing the stern.
Well, we have certaintly had our share of futurists: Arthur C. Clarke, Issac Asimov, Robert Heinlien, etc. Trouble is, they all mostly assumed there would be abundant energy in the future as well. Then there are the Dr. Paul Erlich's who foresaw and forewarned of the "Population Bomb." So, there isn't a vacuum, actually. Like PO, you just need to know where to look.
These folks focus on global climate change as the crisis, not PO.
http://www.facingthefuture.org/
Check out the Next Thousand Years link for a TV series here:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n this entertaining, fact-based television series (now in Project Planning), the Foundation For the Future looks at where humanity has been and envisions the possible paths humanity might travel in the next thousand years, guided by leading thinkers from all over the world.
http://www.futurefoundation.com/
World Future Society http://www.wfs.org/
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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