[PenultimateManStanding]

Bin Laden has suggested that the people of America are paper tigers and can't stand the heat of War. He says that the US will give up in defeat now just as we did in Somalia and Vietnam. There are differences between now and then of course, the main ones being that we have a volunteer military and far fewer are being killed now than back then. Therefore there will be less political heat in Washington. Protest movements are just window dressing today. The War goes on. The real danger is that the military institutions will collapse from within. The stress of trying to be 'contemporary' in a PC World and fight a war at the same time. If you add Peak Oil to the equation, then our true answer to Bin Laden may come with gloves off and fighting, or mired in a new depression with a once-great military.

[sklump]

Bin Laden will be made to do or say whatever the Pentagon needs him to say to manufacture consent for whatever the Pentagon wanted to do in the first place.

Just my opinion. Feel free not to take it seriously . I can see my own tinfoil hat reflected in the monitor.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sklump', 'B')in Laden will be made to do or say whatever the Pentagon needs him to say to manufacture consent for whatever the Pentagon wanted to do in the first place.

Just my opinion. Feel free not to take it seriously . I can see my own tinfoil hat reflected in the monitor.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Maybe the Iraq situation will turn out like this: Iraqi military becomes the strongest faction as the US pulls back into bases built in country. Civilian institutions aren't viable and chaos causes military to seize control. This military junta, however, is pro-West and the West leaves them with carte blanc to pacify the country and stabilize the oil exports and allow for infrastructure re-build to happen. All this with strategic information blackouts and managed news.

[I_Like_Plants]

I think OBL is right, he may be ugly but he ain't dumb. And look at how every war since WWII went for us, worn down to a standstill every time at best.

WWII was a bit different, lots of blood relatives over there in Europe under threat, plus legitimate fears of the Japanese on the west coast. And soldiers who were used to doing with very little during the Depression, already used to hunger etc.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'I') think OBL is right, he may be ugly but he ain't dumb. And look at how every war since WWII went for us, worn down to a standstill every time at best.

WWII was a bit different, lots of blood relatives over there in Europe under threat, plus legitimate fears of the Japanese on the west coast. And soldiers who were used to doing with very little during the Depression, already used to hunger etc.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he American people no longer have the spine to see a job through to the end.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he American people no longer have the spine to see a job through to the end.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o you use the opinion of 1 individual stationed in Iraq and think this reflects the feelings of the group?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '
')This wasn't the job of the American people to begin with. We had no business in Iraq. My uncle, who is stationed there, appears to agree.

[The_Toecutter]

Perhaps that not everyone in Iraq thinks this war is worthwhile and it would be worthwhile to actually talk to people of various views that have been there or are currently there to help modify your opinion?

If you really want to have some semblence of a look at the feelings of the 'group' perhaps it would be worth your while to look at various journals of the soldiers in Iraq or who have served in Iraq and look at interveiws conducted with them.

[pea-jay]

The US is certainly a paper tiger. As insignificant as the Iraq conflict is when compared to past conflicts, it is forgotten that we were the oil supply for the free world during WWII and were insignificant importers by the Vietnam era. We made our own stuff and could afford a huge conflict. We can't anymore and our administration is probably cogniscent of this fact. Most individuals aren't. There is no way we could pull off a large scale war again. There isnt the energy or finances to do this. Our determination hasn't failed us, but our economic might has.

Fuck, if we are forced to borrow 2.1billion dollars a day from our potential enemies, err strategic competitors, who in the world could we turn to to battle China for the last drops of oil?? China. Yeah right. It's like Germany or Japan trying to finance their warmaking efforts by selling bonds to the US.

If push came to shove, China will win a resource war over middle eastern oil. Our balls are caught in their vise and were at their mercy not to squeeze too hard. We could of course preemptively nuke them, but they more than likely could return the favor. In that case we'd take the express train back to the stone age as a result.

[I_Like_Plants]

In WWII we supplied our side with oil, we had the guts to ration gas at home, and we worked all out to win. Oh, and we got our asses handed to us in the early WWII years too. By the Germans and by the Japanese. But we kept fighting and won - much of it by denying the other side their oil supplies.

You know when 9-11 happened I thought maybe I'd be growing tomatoes and chard on my balcony and reporting for bandage-rolling and supplies-packing duties at the local high school at nights. I thought this might be the new WWII. Instead, it's being done like Vietnam, everything's just hunky-dory at home, while working class kids are used for cannon fodder. And screwing things up so thoroughly that the 3/4 of the Iraquis who'd be on our side if we did things right, are instead joining the Jihadists. And you can't blame 'em given the circumstances.

Like Rome, in the early days of their Empire they were ass kickers and name-takers, in the decline days they used their lower class and immigrants to do their halfhearted fighting and gradually their Empire fell.

[Jake_old]

I_Like_Plants wrote

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n WWII we supplied our side with oil, we had the guts to ration gas at home, and we worked all out to win. Oh, and we got our asses handed to us in the early WWII years too. By the Germans and by the Japanese. But we kept fighting and won - much of it by denying the other side their oil supplies.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', '
')If push came to shove, China will win a resource war over middle eastern oil. Our balls are caught in their vise and were at their mercy not to squeeze too hard. We could of course preemptively nuke them, but they more than likely could return the favor. In that case we'd take the express train back to the stone age as a result.

[Jake_old]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f we were to strike first our opening move would be having our 688's send a torpedo right up the ass of every Chinese boomer out there, quickly followed by a laucch of our nuclear assets at key critical stuctures of the Chinese.

[oiless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', ' ')As insignificant as the Iraq conflict is when compared to past conflicts, it is forgotten that we were the oil supply for the free world during WWII and were insignificant importers by the Vietnam era. We made our own stuff and could afford a huge conflict.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he American people no longer have the spine to see a job through to the end.

[katkinkate]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'I') think OBL is right, he may be ugly but he ain't dumb. And look at how every war since WWII went for us, worn down to a standstill every time at best.

WWII was a bit different, lots of blood relatives over there in Europe under threat, plus legitimate fears of the Japanese on the west coast. And soldiers who were used to doing with very little during the Depression, already used to hunger etc.