[Expatriot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') don't think so, Americans are angry and fed up they won't allow any more military antics involving ground troops in the middle east.

[gollum]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') don't think so, Americans are angry and fed up they won't allow any more military antics involving ground troops in the middle east.

[vision-master]

Looks like Obama is setting himself up for another term. He also gave 55 million Americans a 3.5% raise for 2012. lol

[Cog]

Its an automatic inflationary adjustment that Obama has nothing to do with. But good try VM.

Back to your crack pipe.

[newman1979]

Nothing is automatic in getting a 3.5% SS increase. it has to be done by the Administration first. Just like the last 2 years of no raises. Obama gets the credit, just like getting the credit for Osama bin Laden's death, not spending capital or lives and getting a result in Libya, and getting out of Iraq, a stupid war the Republicans started unnecessarily. In Foreign policy Bush gets D- and Obama gets a B. H. Clinton gets an A-.

[newman1979]

Nothing is automatic in getting a 3.5% SS increase. it has to be done by the Administration first. Just like the last 2 years of no raises. Obama gets the credit, just like getting the credit for Osama bin Laden's death, not spending capital or lives and getting a result in Libya, and getting out of Iraq, a stupid war the Republicans started unnecessarily. In Foreign policy Bush gets D- and Obama gets a B. H. Clinton gets an A-.

[Cog]

Newman, quit being an idiot and look it up. Its a long term federal law that establishes COLA's on social security. Obama had nothing to do with the freeze and nothing to do with the increase.

[Pops]

So we're out, for now, although I assume there are a couple of "contractors" still there.

We had a son and son in law both over there, I guess that puts us at the low end of the socio-economic ladder. No permanent damage is obvious.

I'm sad thousands of ours died and tens of thousands were wounded and broken and sad a hundred or 2 thousand Iraqis died. I'm angry because nothing was accomplished except weakening the US.

I don't think it was worth the cost. Could be the Arab Spring is recorded as flowing from the "freedom" endured by the Iraqis but I don't see that. I see it as an embarrassing act of hubris sold with lies by men who never fought a battle except in a boardroom.


Any thoughts?

[vtsnowedin]

I have a few, some of them conflicting. I have a daughter that served a year maintaining the road from Kuwait to the Iraq border so have some skin in the game but nowhere as much as she has.
I think that the fact that S. Hussein tried to have ans ex. US president assassinated was more then enough reason to attach Iraq until he was taken out.
I have mixed feelings about the WMD and the "intelligence" that assured us that they were there.
At the very least it shows all the worlds despots that if the USA decides to whack there keister there best option is an early retirement to some golf resort.
I expect that in a year or so we will have to go back and take out what ever army invades the country and tries to seize all their oil. Iran? China ? KSA? Israel???

[seahorse3]

It wasn't worth it. A war based on lies or false information can never be justified after the fact. Many Americans lost the lives literally and figuratively and countless Iraqis did too. We spent over a trillion dollars for nothing. We need to get out of Afghanistan as soon as possible

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'S')o we're out, for now, although I assume there are a couple of "contractors" still there.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I') think that the fact that S. Hussein tried to have ans ex. US president assassinated was more then enough reason to attach Iraq until he was taken out.

[Fiddlerdave]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '.')..
I think that the fact that S. Hussein tried to have ans ex. US president assassinated was more then enough reason to attach Iraq until he was taken out.
I have mixed feelings about the WMD and the "intelligence" that assured us that they were there.

[gollum]

I was there for the first gulf war so while not an expert by any means I definatley have a strong opinion,Iraq was a terrible mistake and waste of lives. It's inexcusable that we went in based on lies or mistakes depending on how one looks at it. I also believe that if we had a draft in this country this would have never happened in the first place or been allowed to fester for a decade. Any respect I ever had for republicans on defence issues is forever gone, what sort of nitfuck thinks that occupying a third world shithole is either a victory or makes us safer.

[Loki]

The Iraq War was a national disgrace.

[Shaved Monkey]

The US got what it wanted.
It made Israel safer.(keeps the neo cons and Christo/zionists happy)
It stopped a socialist country from making profit from its resources to use as it wished.(yay for Capitalism)
It privatised their resources and sent the profits overseas so US and its Allies shareholders can make more money.(yay for Capitalism)
It stopped that oil from being sold in Euros and not $US (yay for US controlled Capitalism)
It guaranteed the flow rate was not going to be reduced by an Anti US government as a weapon against the US and its allies.(yay for Capitalism)
It gained control over one of the largest oil reserves in the world.(yay for Capitalism)
Slowed down post peak oil zombie scenarios (yay for BAU)

[Heineken]

The Iraq War was a malignant outgrowth of the personal anger of the neocons against Saddam, who had gone "rogue" and was no longer the US puppet he was designed (and installed by the CIA) to be.

http://www.hartford-hwp

The neocons were aching for some excuse to invade Iraq---any excuse---and for them, 9/11 was heaven-sent. 9/11 had little or nothing to do with Iraq, yet it created the ideal political climate for ramming through a war resolution.

You already know all that, but it bears repeating ad nauseum.

We talk about getting rid of the dictator in Iraq, and "freeing" it, but what about all the other countries with dictatorial governments? In any case, what gave our "leaders" the right to put the internal affairs of a distant, desert land above our own critical needs?

I feel that every death, limb or set of genitalia blown off, eye blinded, mind deranged, and dollar spent was utterly wasted. I don't know how characters like Rummy, Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, and the rest of that gang---precious few of them military veterans---sleep at night. They are criminals in every sense of the word.

I also strongly fault Obama for being so slow to end the war, while running for office against it. I think he was mesmerized by the light bouncing off his generals' medals, the luncheons in the officers' mess on aircraft carriers, etc.

It's amazing to me that people like VtSnowdin (a very fine and intelligent fellow) still only have "doubts" about that war. I guess I just don't get it.

What we could have done with $4+ trillion!

The Twin Wars permanently damaged my opinion of this country and, vastly more important, permanently damaged this country.

I write all this as a veteran and the son of a highly decorated veteran on 100% service-connected disability. As a WWII combat vet with severe PTSD, he's an example of how the damage and cost of war echoes on for many generations. We've only begun paying for Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Plantagenet]

So far so good.

Now lets get the troops out of Afganistan. US forces have sustained over 1800 deaths in Afghanistan in the three years since Obama escalated the war there. Its past time for that foolishness to end as well.

[AgentR11]

Bush said we didn't have to pay for it; therefore to most non-military related families it remained (and remains) a distant issue with no impact on them. I don't know about the rest of the non-mil folks, but I'm certain I didn't have to "sacrifice" anything as a cost of sending the troops into battle overseas; and that was a very bad thing. I also have always been a bit disturbed that the whole congressional declaration of war process was punted; this idea of killing enemy soldiers, dropping bombs, and blowing up stuff, but being afraid to use the word "war"; its just cowardice.

If you're gonna do it; say it and mean it.

nb.. On draft, I disagree; you get into the same fights, you just perform worse and get more involuntary participants killed or maimed.

[Heineken]

We just have to get over the idea that we're somehow responsible for how people behave in other countries. This notion that we're the global cop is destroying us as surely as if we were attacking ourselves.

Case in point: Last week it was reported that 50% of Americans are now near to or below the poverty line.