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Oil Prices Could Fall to $40 a Barrel - Jim Rogers Interview

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Oil Prices Could Fall to $40 a Barrel - Jim Rogers Inter

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Jul 2012, 20:37:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')e've already bounced back from the lows to around $87/barrel today.


So what? One afternoon's price movement doesn't mean anything.

The overall price trend is definitely down right now, because of slowing global economic growth.

In fact, Jim Rogers suggested this trend could continue until the price falls to ca. $40/barrel. HEY! Thats what this topic is about!


The operative word is "could", but it won't for the reasons already given. You only have to pay attention to long term trends based on costs and resources to understand that. Demand destruction has a floor.


We'll just have to agree to differ on this one.

I trust the quantitative data over your opinion. The data shows that long term trends towards higher oil prices won't stop the price of oil from plunging if the economy goes really bad. In 2008 the price dropped as low as $30/barrel when the global economy went to heck.

Cheers!
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Re: Oil Prices Could Fall to $40 a Barrel - Jim Rogers Inter

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 06 Jul 2012, 15:17:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')apacity? What is that? OOIP? Resources? Stated reserves? Probable reserves? Possible? Improbable Reserves? Undeclared Immeasurable Reserves? Who measures Capacity? Houdini?
How many times have we gone over this?


Didn't realize you were that poorly informed on the subject. The spare capacity refers to oil that is ready to produce with no serious investment required. That is what the megaprojects were all about. A number of years ago on the now dissappeared Saudi Arabia data thread I pointed to the predictions for production from the megaprojects and it added up to 12 MMb/d. Those projects were all completed and it isn't someting that could be hidden because there were rigs and completion equipment, service companies and a number of big engineering firms that were hired to install separation and plant facilities. As I remember the cost of these projects was north of $100 billion US. These investments got the various projects Haradh III, Khurais, Shaybah etc to the point where it is almost as simple as turning a tap to get that extra production.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Saudis are cooked and they know it. Remember when I showed you how SA commited to $28/barrel oil and then watched the price skyrocket without production increase. If I cared I would go back to the go-around and show how you turned tail and ran eveytime. You know it. How many times have you fronted for the Kingdom. I am tired of it.


The Saudis lost control of their ability to control price because they had gotten caught with their pants down. They had done virtually no investment in the country on new production and reinvested strictly on technology for existing field production. This left them with little in the way of spare capacity and when demand jumped quickly they were unable to meet it. The Saudis admitted it at the time which was why they invested the money in the megaprojects...the idea being to increase their spare capacity so they would not get caught in that situation again. I am not fronting for them, but merely pointing to factual data that if you wanted you could easily have found yourself.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'f') I cared I would go back to the go-around and show how you turned tail and ran eveytime.


Oh please do...this should be humerous considering you know absolutely zero about the subject.
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Re: Oil Prices Could Fall to $40 a Barrel - Jim Rogers Inter

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 07 Jul 2012, 11:48:06

It makes sense to believe that producers will throttle back production and raise prices in a falling price market, but that is not guaranteed. When countries such as SA or Russia have uni-dimensional economies in which they must produce oil in order to have any money at all to run their operations they can fall into the trap. For them it is cheaper to produce at a loss for a time than to incur the cost of re-inventing their economies/political power bases. If it goes on long enough it is still cheaper to start throwing various outlying groups under the bus than to change the basic way things are done. If this happens I would be watching out for an increase in domestic turmoil in such producing countries. Things could even get so bad that old allies like SA would be tempted by any legitimate offers to bring change to the situation and begin to think in terms of joining political blocs other than the monolithic imperial one to which they belong now.
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Re: Oil Prices Could Fall to $40 a Barrel - Jim Rogers Inter

Unread postby monsta666 » Sat 07 Jul 2012, 20:53:45

I could be wrong about this but to me spare capacity entails that a country can bring on oil supplies within 30 days (this part of the definition prevents countries/companies including fields currently being developed into spare capacity) and then maintain this new level of production for at least 90 days (this 90 days limit insures a country cannot tap its strategic reserves or other storage and claim that is its spare capacity).

For a long time I had doubts whether Saudi Arabia had any significant spare capacity but today I am inclined to believe they have some. However this spare capacity is not nearly enough to bring oil prices down. If Saudi Arabia could force prices down then they would have done so. High prices have a terrible effect on the global economy and if it is high enough it will create another financial crisis. They know full well about this and will do whatever they can to prevent this. However they do not have the capacity to bring oil down to $75 nevermind $50. Those prices will not be reached unless the global economy goes into another tailspin.
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Re: Oil Prices Could Fall to $40 a Barrel - Jim Rogers Inter

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 11 Jul 2012, 22:59:06

Its possible that Obama is promising to support Saudi Arabia against Iran militarily in exchange for lower oil prices. The Saudi's may figure that a nationalist war against Persians would rally their people to make up for less oil-funded social programs.
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Re: Oil Prices Could Fall to $40 a Barrel - Jim Rogers Inter

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 21 Jul 2012, 10:49:03

That is almost the opposite of the truth. Obama doesn't want low prices, he wants the US oil industry to be able to compete; something it can't do under about $80bbl. That still leaves almost nothing for refiner margins. Or tax. $100 is the basic new normal and that's the way it's going to stay for a while yet.
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