Obama: 'Russia Doesn't Make Anything' : Open Topic Discussion - Page 2

Re: Obama: 'Russia Doesn't Make Anything'

by Sixstrings » Tue 05 Aug 2014, 06:15:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'T')his is the rhetoric of war, in an age where war between large states can not be acceptable.

You're right.

It's the drumbeat starting up -- it took a while, US ship of state and MIC and Pentagon and all of that turn ever so slowly but Putin's been insistent on being the bad guy in the world. Putin's the one that started it. So this is what he gets.

As it was, our military thinkers were all focused on Asia and Russia really was all forgotten about.

It won't lead to war though, Agent, but it will lead to troops in Ukraine and /or elsewhere in east Europe. US just moves slow on this. Takes time. It's not done lightly. A more forward-thinker would have handled it already, sooner, like George Bush wanted to do but oh well Obama and Merkel will get to the same place eventually.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') really have a hard time comprehending why Obama, supposedly of the more dove'ish persuasion, would be using insulting rhetoric directed at another military power that if pushed into a no win situation, could end the industrial world, forever, as easily as us.

Russian leadership isn't stupid -- if they end the world in nuclear holocaust, then that means Russia too.

We do need to worry about accidents, though. Cold war is dangerous. And this new Russia isn't the Soviet Union. Putin's Russia is on the rise, takes risks, seems unstable at times. They're far more concerning and dangerous than Gorbachev. Latter Soviet Russia was like China is now, as far as being interested in *stability*. But Putin's on the rise, it's different, this is like a Kruschev Russia.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')esides, its dumb, Russia makes tons of stuff; not necessarily lots of sophisticated, pleasurable stuff; but stuff none the less.

Ironically, they were making all the rocket engines for the US air force and NASA contractors too!

Of course Russia makes a lot of stuff, good stuff too, I saw a thing on science channel about this huge truck factory. Looked like a good operation there and good trucks.

Obama's point is just that the West needn't worry about trade disruption with Russia.

Generally, I think it's poor taste to insult them though. Better to stand up to them, move forces into Ukraine, but show them respect -- intangible respect is really what it's all about anyway! That's what they want in the first place!

John McCain is always saying "Russia is a gas station masquarading as a country."

It really is insulting. Russia's a neat place. They just need to do what Ukraine has done, and start reforming the corruption and the oligarchs. And real democracy, no more dictatorship. Etc.

Re: Obama: 'Russia Doesn't Make Anything'

by AgentR11 » Tue 05 Aug 2014, 09:32:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'P')utin's the one that started it. So this is what he gets.

1. Who care's who started it. 2. We started it by placing useability of the Crimea on the table.
3. Putin's gotten pretty much what he wanted. A bit messy, his skirmishers in E. Ukraine are hard to control/manage; but the Crimea is solidly in Russian control now and that can not be undone short of a global war with NATO troops sacking Moscow (which is ridiculous)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') really have a hard time comprehending why Obama, supposedly of the more dove'ish persuasion, would be using insulting rhetoric directed at another military power that if pushed into a no win situation, could end the industrial world, forever, as easily as us.

Russian leadership isn't stupid -- if they end the world in nuclear holocaust, then that means Russia too.

You miss the point.. AGAIN. It is stupid to select holocaust, if the choice for Russia is between Imperial Putin's Russia with the Crimea able to trade reasonably well East and West, and nuclear obliteration. It is not stupid to select holocaust if Russia/Putin come to the conclusion we are forcing them to choose between a captive, broken Russian state obedient to EU dicta and holocaust with everyone broken. That's a decision Russia could easily make, and it would not be the choice that we would select for them. This doesn't mean Russia is better off, it means everyone is so much worse off that the remaining difference is irrelevant.

Stupid policy directed towards Russia could *easily* get us to that second set of choices.

The tone of the rhetoric in use by Western leaders and their propaganda organs is unfortunately, quite supportive of actions that would drive to that second set of choices.

What's even worse, is the hubris displayed in the belief that nothing bad will happen. Belief is not enough, action must support de-escalation. Instead, we have both sides, escalating the conflict with as much enthusiasm as they can get away with.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t really is insulting. Russia's a neat place. They just need to do what Ukraine has done, and start reforming the corruption and the oligarchs. And real democracy, no more dictatorship. Etc.