[Sonny]

Hi everyone, I'm a new poster here. My name is Sean and I'm a 19 year old first year Undergraduate student at Bath University in the UK.
This is quite a long post, so for the people who don't want to read everything I've written here, this is basically the question I want to ask:

Is Civil Engineering a viable profession for a Post-Peak world?

I first learnt about peak oil just after Easter of this year, through Matt Savinar's shockingly gloomy life after the oil crash site! What I read there really threw me, it took me about 4 days to get through the introduction because I couldn't take reading more than a few paragraphs at a time!!!

The end of civilisation as we know it... Jeeeeeeeez.

Well anyway, I commited myself to frenzied reading on the subject to try and convince myself that this was just some crazy conspiracy theory. But to no avail, and following the usual Denial/Anger/Depression cycle eventually just accepted it as fact.

So what since then? I came back to Uni a few weeks back after the end of the Easter Holidays. I have definitely felt different about things since then. Whereas before the holidays I would be pressuring people to go out most nights of the week, now I'm often happy just to spend time on the internet reading up about alternative energy sources and whats happening in the world today.

I've tried telling housemates about the peak oil problem, and although they did make a small effort to listen at the start, I don't think they truly gave it much attention (I gave them the URL to the Matt Savinar site but I dont think most of them read more than a few paragraphs!). One of my friends did read the whole site, but being a permanent optimist he takes the frame of mind 'Don't worry about it, they'll (scientists) find something!'. Even giving a short presentation to the members of the Amnesty International society seems to have had little effect.

Anyway - sorry for the long rambling intro, onto my main question. I am currently doing a 5 year long Civil Engineering course (thats including 1 years worth of placements). Lately I've had a nagging concern growing in the back of my head. Basically I'm no longer sure whether Civil Engineering will be a viable profession post-peak. Sure the number and size of buildings/infrastructure built in the future will have to greatly decrease due to the gradual fall in easy to acquire energy.

I understand that Engineers will be needed to help create a new energy system, but wouldn't skills such as ability to understand Mechanical or Electrical engineering be much more useful, e.g. to design and create solar panels/wind farms? Also, do you think that if things get really bad, the huge amount of engineers put on the renewable energy projects will push us younger more inexperienced engineers out of the loop??

I read an account of someone who lived through the Great Depression a few days ago. They said that they once met a person who said he used to be a Civil Engineer on $8000 dollars a year, but when the Depression hit, he was quickly made redundant. Is Civil Engineering the wrong career for a Post-Peak world??

I need to decide within the next couple of weeks, because my Uni is already expecting people to register all their courses this month. If anyone could help me with this decision I'd be very grateful !!

Keep your head up...

Sean

[nailud]

Welcome to the group. A lot of us have gone through the same emotional swings you describe after first learning about peak oil. All I can say is that no one can predict hte future. We don't know how all of this will play out or how long it will take. I personally think that a lot of the more extreme survivalist types who post here will be old and grey before they ever get to use the supplies they are stockpiling, but who knows?

I would stick with the engineering. You have to do something, right? Just keep things in perspective and stay flexible.

[bobbyald]

Welcome to the group Sonny.

It takes months to really take in the enormity of what PO really means and most people just don’t get it. You do and that puts you well ahead of the game. Don’t make any rash decisions do the course you want to and enjoy it.

Know one knows what the future has in store.

Good luck.

[EddieB]

I first read about peak oil in 1998 (Campell's Scientific American article) and I've had it lurking int he bakc of my head since then. Not until this spring did I realize the current run up in prices could be the peak coming a few years earlier than I expected. I'm not a survivalist w/food stocks inthe basement, but I do think we're going to look a lot more like Cuba in a few years. Unemployment and gardens will be all over the place. I'm not an engineer, but if I were going into that field I'd probably pursue the electrical/mechanical before civil. How will we build big steel buildings if the steel is super expensive? Why will we build big highways? Sure there will still be some need for civil engineers, but I'm pessimistic about it being a very big number. We'll probably need a lot of small farmers, craftspeople, and docotrs. Life is going to get simplier and slower. I don't think it will necessarily include a "die-off" as many people claim. The "die-off" is only necessary if you want a Western standard of living for every person on the planet. But it will be hard, no doubt about it.

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sonny', 'H')i everyone, I'm a new poster here. My name is Sean and I'm a 19 year old first year Undergraduate student at Bath University in the UK.
This is quite a long post, so for the people who don't want to read everything I've written here, this is basically the question I want to ask:

Is Civil Engineering a viable profession for a Post-Peak world?

I first learnt about peak oil just after Easter of this year, through Matt Savinar's shockingly gloomy life after the oil crash site! What I read there really threw me, it took me about 4 days to get through the introduction because I couldn't take reading more than a few paragraphs at a time!!!
Sean

[Ebyss]

I agree with what others are saying, don't make any rash decisions. If Civil Engineering is what you really want to do, then stick with it, we just don't know how the future is going to pan out. If on the other hand, it was just a course you picked coz you had to pick something, then changing to something you actually enjoy and are interested in might be a good choice.

If you decide to stick with CE, then take up a range of hobbies that pertain to PO in some way. Gardening, wilderness survival, biking, fishing etc are all good hobbies in themselves, regardless of how bad things get/don't get.

[ubercrap]

There's also another take on this, if there is something we don't see coming that allows industrialized civilization to continue for awhile, we'll need to be completely transform the infrastructure, which might mean that Civil Engineers will be badly needed.

[Jdelagado]

Sonny,

How about becoming an author and writing another peak oil book?

jdelagado

[pea-jay]

So you have four more years left? If things fall apart fast enough, you may still not complete your studies. A crash is coming, though I cannot say if it will occur in the next few years. In anycase, I'd start learning informal skills RIGHT NOW and begin adding in your engineering knowledge as you get more familiar with it.

Additionally, take everything you learn on engineering ask this question:
Will this <SUBJECT MATTER> be useful or acheivable with limited energy supplies? If so, its a keeper. Don't waste time on the rest.

Be creative. Find new uses for old techniques and adjust accordingly.

[bobcousins]

From what I understand, Civil Engineering will be plenty relevant in the future. Post-peak it will have a new dimension, which should make it more interesting. I think the whole area of appropriate technology will become highly relevant.

Personally I found it very useful to have knowledge of real world applications to provide direction to my studies. I would have spent less time studying pure mathematics and more time studying statistics, for example.

[Sonny]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I've decided to stay on with the course I'm on, I do like it but I was just doubting for a while whether it had a serious future!
Oh well someone has to make sure those Nuclear/Fusion power stations stand up!!

Awesome forum by the way, the amount of information and news being discussed here is incredibly useful!

Keep spreading the word, Sean

[mrniceguy]

Sean, I think that you've made the right decision. Civil Engineers will be in demand post peak as they are now. I'm just glad you didn't ask the question about media studies, art history or religious studies. Good luck in your course.

[Agren]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ho's your daddy?

Matt

[killJOY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ho's your daddy?

Matt

'You implying you've been fooling with his mom" Shocked

[savethehumans]

With electricity either gone, too expensive, or ineffective, people are going to want to live/work in structures built to naturally keep them cool in summer, warm in winter. There's lots of ways to build such "passive" houses--as well as ways to localize any kind of power they might be able to wangle (for food, cooking, showering and cleaning, etc).

This, too, is civil engineering. Learn your basics in school--and also study eco-friendly, power-reducing structures and materials. That way, you can be ready to become someone who can CONVERT a building into something post-peak usable--or BUILD one (from natural materials and materials from torn down buildings--of which there will be many). Your skills are a GREAT way to contribute to your community, as well as keep you fed, clothed, sheltered, health-cared for, et al.

The question you need to ask isn't: should I quit this major? It's "how can I take this and prepare myself for post-peak?" In short, LET them teach you about building skyscrapers...YOU learn building BASICS, and add post-peak building skills to them! (P.S. Try to keep in mind that your grades aren't the most important thing here--getting well-developed skills ARE. Don't get caught up in the paper chase, OK? OK!)

[Doly]

If you are one of the few people that has been studying civil engineering preparing for post peak, you will have a clear advantage over all the rest of graduates. That will make a difference.

[Elfstrom]

I graduated in 1997 from civil engineering and promptly went to work in medical physics and information technology, and now I'm doing mostly web development and photography. Now I'm getting interested in retooling myself to use that stagnant background and get back into it.

We had the option of taking an envrionmental stream or structural/transportation stream. I chose structural/transportation.

The environmental engineering sub-option of civil engineering would be very useful post-peak, especially if you focus on sustainable systems, such as greywater recovery, sewage systems, and water filtration. You'll learn about building dams for hydroelectric power.

The structural path is good too, because you'll learn the various building techniques for larger structures. In one course we learned how to do project management as well as physical building for constructing your own home, from surveying right through to final completion. Structural engineering aligns very closely with architecture. So you could learn all sorts of building techniques for engergy-efficient homes.

The transportation option that I specialized in wasn't so great for post-peak. Railways were touched on. There used to be an entire class focusing on railways but that was made obsolete by the move to just-in-time tractor-trailer shipping. Interestingly, railways are starting to make a big comeback in Canada. Unfortunately in my courses we also learned how to design subdivisions and freeway off/on ramps, traffic calming devices, and all sorts of stuff about congestion. Not really all that applicable to post-peak. I'm now thankful that I had to do structural engineering as well, though I would have probably been happier in environmental engineering (as a subset of civil), urban planning, or architecture.

Basically, in any stream of civil engineering, when you get the chance to pick your own topics, you'll be able to focus on post-peak solutions. That's great!

If you were interested more in solar/wind and other alternatives, as well as motors of any type, then for certain a switch to mechanical would be in order.

The great thing about civil (and mechanical) is that both are very practical. Big government-sponsored engineering projects are a possibility that would involve both civil and mechanical, such as nuclear reactors - even though I don't want to see more nuclear built, I suspect that we will be headed that way.

The great thing about engineering is that work experience counts for a heck of a lot, your studies are just the foundation. (pun intended)

[Elfstrom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('savethehumans', 'L')earn your basics in school--and also study eco-friendly, power-reducing structures and materials. That way, you can be ready to become someone who can CONVERT a building into something post-peak usable--or BUILD one (from natural materials and materials from torn down buildings--of which there will be many). Your skills are a GREAT way to contribute to your community, as well as keep you fed, clothed, sheltered, health-cared for, et al.

[Whitecrab]

Alongside studying green building materials and energy-efficient building techniques, try to use your internships to your advantage as well. You could try working for an energy company. Building a nuclear plant requires civils, and I'd imagine wind turbine bases need a cement expert as well. You could also try getting attached to any "New Urbanism" projects you can - these are architectural experts in car-independant methods of civic design. There are also plenty of environmental design firms in cities that would love to have you.

If you want to take some non-civil courses I bet your department will let you if you're a good student and make a special request. If you graduate and find you're in the wrong discipline, you can usually do a Master of Engineering to switch (or get try to get a relevant job during internship or right after graduation, and sneak in a switch before you have much job experience).

Let me know if you come up with any really great ideas; my little sister is doing Civil next year and I want to try to nudge her education in a useful direction as well.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '
')Who's your daddy?

Matt